http://peebs.net/forums/ Discussion and Information about the Exclusive Brethren en-US Mon, 21 May 2012 17:38:10 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://peebs.net/forums/search.php http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/the-dodgy-brother%e2%80%99s-dash-for-cash/page/2#post-30090 Mon, 21 May 2012 13:27:37 +0000 Digger 30090@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>G'day, did a bit of a fossick for the Hales rellie fund. Not a bad annual income Brucie and that's just two.</p> <p><img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/kbc6xd.jpg"></p> <p><img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/k2ia7r.jpg"></p> <p><img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/2mzws4x.jpg"></p> <p><img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/wtj3nr.jpg"> </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/exclusive-brethren-member-jailed-for-rape/page/3#post-30089 Mon, 21 May 2012 13:24:49 +0000 peebs.net 30089@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p><blockquote> Peebs.net - are you sure you are not just a tad paranoic about maintaining a theme of anti EB - at the expense of a few who do see another side - but may be scared to post for fear of ridicule?</blockquote></p> <p>We love debate and discussion. Register, start a topic on a suitable thread and we'll all join in.</p> <p>This thread is about sexual abuse and rape.</p> <p>Thanks </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30088 Mon, 21 May 2012 13:19:03 +0000 Anonymous 30088@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>History shows us that the EB want to know what questions they are going to be asked some time ahead of when they are officially posed.</p> <p>There is a reason for this. They are unable to answer a straight question for fear of incriminating themselves, their leader or their fellow brethren. If there was nothing to hide, this would not happen. Even then all we get is 'Brethren Speak', which is virtually unintelligable to the average man in the street. We as ex-EB are possibly the only people in the world who are able to decipher it, red herrings 'n all !</p> <p>Under professional cross examination they would quickly be found out, which is presumably why they avoid court situations at all costs. Even though they often threaten to take other people there, they usually back down at the last minute, fearing more negative publicity and being shown up for what they really are. A sham. Or a shambles !</p> <p>W Blower </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/exclusive-brethren-member-jailed-for-rape/page/3#post-30087 Mon, 21 May 2012 13:14:05 +0000 Anonymous 30087@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>It could seem - that if one is the slightest pro-EB - one is treated with suspicion here on peebs.net. We need to ask ourselves - why is this so? Where is the spirit of forgiveness amongst this community? When Jesus was asked what is the two most important commandments - the second was "Love thy neighbour as thyself" ( 1 in OT and at least 5 on NT) For those who call ourselves Christians here - are we sure we are setting a good example - by forgiving our EB brothers and sisters? Peebs.net - are you sure you are not just a tad paranoic about maintaining a theme of anti EB - at the expense of a few who do see another side - but may be scared to post for fear of ridicule? "Exposing truth" is claimed to be a basis of this site - however - when in contradiction to the second commandment - what comes first? Exposing truth at all costs? or loving thy neighbor as thyself? If exposing truth - puts the EB in a good light or works against loving thy neighbour - what then? Maybe there is more on this thread that might reveal the EB in a different light to the norm if searched out? What then? Glad to hear some discussion here. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/what-is-eb-teaching-about-tithing/page/2#post-30086 Mon, 21 May 2012 11:41:01 +0000 peebs.net 30086@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>The UK Charity Commision website offers some interesting information regarding how the Hales Exclusive Brethren use their charities. Focus Learning Trust (the UK Charitable arm for the HEB indoctrination centres) 2010 Accounts has some interesting snippets.</p> <p><strong>Focus Learning Trust<br /> 2010 Accounts</strong></p> <p>Extracts: (bold added)</p> <p><blockquote><strong>Risk Management</strong></p> <p>The work of the Trust and, for 8 months of the year, its trading subsidiary company has again grown significantly in the year under review. The Trustees have considered the risks involved and confirmed that they have put in place management systems and controls to assist in the efficient operation of both the Trust and its subsidiaries and to protect the assets of both. </p> <p><strong>In order to consolidate fundraising and manage risks better the trading subsidiary company was moved to a sister charity, The Grace Trust, in March 2010.</strong></blockquote></p> <p><blockquote><strong>Results and state of affairs</strong></p> <p>Group incoming resources including restricted funds reduced from £43,517,443 to £33,649,859.<strong> The majority of the incoming resources £29,888,580 are from the trading subsidiary Onefocus EU Limited which was disposed of on 31 March 2010.</strong></p> <p><strong>INVESTMENTS</strong></p> <p><strong>The charity owned the whole of the issued share capital of Onefocus EU Limited</strong>, a company registered in England until its disposal on 31 March 2010. The subsidiary was used for trading activities. All activities to the date of sale have been consolidated on a line by line basis in the Statement of Financial Activities. </blockquote></p> <p>And finally, meet OneBus:</p> <p><blockquote>The charity also has control ofthe following undertakings which were incorporated during the year and were dormant at 31 July 2010:</p> <p>Onebus Limited * * Hire of equipment</blockquote></p> <p>Web Overview - <a href="http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1099725&amp;SubsidiaryNumber=0">click for UK web site</a></p> <p><strong>PDF </strong>- <a href="http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends25/0001099725_ac_20100731_e_c.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends25/0001099725_ac_20100731_e_c.pdf</a> </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30085 Mon, 21 May 2012 09:55:00 +0000 Ian 30085@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>If they believe there is any way of justifying their position, I think they will accept your invitation, Joan, but if they know in their heart of hearts that their position is indefensible, then they will avoid you like the plague. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30084 Mon, 21 May 2012 09:41:35 +0000 Anonymous 30084@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>One of the main hindrances to any possibility of reform is that there is minimal dialogue between Hales Exclusive Brethren people and those outside. Sadly, what comes over as a superstitious fear of non-members largely prevents them from attending or responding to what outsiders say.</p> <p>It's incredibly frustrating, and I haven't met behaviour like this anywhere else. Most people recognise that there is value in comment from others, and there is a sense in which we can only know ourselves properly in an exchange of views and opinions.</p> <p>I would like to see the Hales group of Exclusive Brethren in each country open themselves up to a process of dialogue with former members and other interested people. It would be quite a commitment because it takes time and imagination effectively to hear and understand what others say, but it could be mutually beneficial and it might help to begin to repair the Brethren's very damaged reputation. </p> <p>I've been told by a member that it is "our leaders" who insist on the kind of separation that, in refusing to eat with outsiders, treats all non-members as moral reprobates, so I would like to give the leaders in every country a chance to explain this teaching and in return offer others the opportunity to express their feelings about it. </p> <p>Nothing is gained by not talking to each other. This site is the only vehicle most people have to present their half of a dialogue and it's not at all easy to discuss these matters in typed paragraphs. I'd like to challenge Bruce D Hales and his cohort of leaders round the world to consider the possibility of engaging with people of goodwill in open dialogue to see if progress can be made. </p> <p>Joan </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30083 Mon, 21 May 2012 09:16:00 +0000 Anonymous 30083@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p><blockquote>In 1970 a chunk of the cultish Exclusive Brethren broke away and became less cultish. I think they are still undergoing a measure of gradual positive reform. It seems just possible that the same process might happen again, and this time the reforming faction might be in the majority</blockquote></p> <p>I agree with the sentiment of what you say here Ian, the problem is the huge growth of the HEB across the world has resulted in them outnumbering the Renton's, Frosts et el, about 10 to 1. </p> <p>I entirely agree there will be a division, its just a matter of time, however, I feel very sorry for those left in the other EB groups Renton's, Frosts, Walkers, etc. Any reforming influence that is currently going on now, involving becoming less Exclusive and less reliant on the ministry and more reliant on bible teaching, will I fear, be snuffed out. </p> <p>I have been pleasantly surprised at the number of brethren (although still small in number) - now questioning about their history, now questioning the validity of exclusive principles, now questioning why they are in a group which shuts itself off from all other Christian influence apart from within its own circle, now questioning the validity of "withdrawing" from Christians who were and still remain deep Christian believers, now questioning ministry and exclusive teaching and really shining a biblical light on it and comparing to what the scriptures actually teach, now questioning the devotional following given to “men” and ministry teaching from “men” rather than what the bible teaches. This is the early seeds of reform, the first whisper of a wind of change.</p> <p>I pray it won’t be, but I have a deep foreboding that all the current positive moves within these other EB groups will be wiped out, by a huge influx from a massive division within the HEB. </p> <p>I suppose it comes down to this – When and if a division takes places in the HEB, what the division is about ?. </p> <p>Will it be about – Business, Money and Control – or will it be about - Rejection of the Exclusive way of life, of ministry, of separation from all other Christians and those “not with us”.</p> <p>I suspect it will be much harder to throw off the Exclusive way of life, with all its trappings and all its doctrine, dogma and rules. If we are being realistic, it is this aspect, which will be the comfort zone many will cling to, if there is a division.</p> <p>I pray there will be a division or reform or both but I also pray it doesnt then result in other EB groups becoming more hardline. The number of HEB for example that have joined the Renton's, Frosts etc over the last 30 years have wreaked havoc among their local meetings and wider in some cases </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30082 Mon, 21 May 2012 08:39:09 +0000 Ian 30082@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p><blockquote> I think if we are being frank positive reform is unlikely. Is there a precedent for a cult changing itself to break down the walls with the outside world?</blockquote></p> <p>I agree that positive reform of a cult is a very rare event, and I entertain only a slim hope that it will occur within the HEB, but I do think it is the best possible solution, so we should do anything that might improve its chances. It has happened before.</p> <p>In the middle ages the Roman Church had many cultish characteristics. It was extremely authoritarian; the Pope and the rest of the hierarchy had draconian powers; they used fear and deceit to control people and to exploit them financially. But they underwent radical reform partly because of the courage of principled people like Luther and partly because a lot of lesser mortals among the ruling classes of Europe were fed up with being told what to do. If reform happened in the mediaeval church, it just might happen to the Brethren, and for more or less the same reasons. </p> <p>In 1970 a chunk of the cultish Exclusive Brethren broke away and became less cultish. I think they are still undergoing a measure of gradual positive reform. It seems just possible that the same process might happen again, and this time the reforming faction might be in the majority. </p> <p>There are also cases of cults that have voluntarily disbanded after outside pressure was brought to bear on them, and some that fizzled out after the death of their guru. They don’t all end in cataclysm. </p> <p>So I don’t give up hope. I think the combined effect of educators and exposers amongst us might yet bear some fruit, and if the road to reform proves to be bumpy we will also need to train more carers to cope with those who emerge with psychological scars. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30081 Mon, 21 May 2012 05:34:25 +0000 Anonymous 30081@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>A major schism would surely be a good thing. After all there was one in 1970. Around 12,000 left the Taylor cult at that time and it took a generation for breeding to increase the numbers back to what they were previously. The trickle of people that left during the 1960s made no positive impact and only served to reinforce Taylor's senseless edicts.<br /> A major schism is necessary to do major damage to the present financial structures of the EB. The departure of a few dozen here or there would hardly be noticed except in the immediate area and of course primarily in the families affected.<br /> I think if we are being frank positive reform is unlikely. Is there a precedent for a cult changing itself to break down the walls with the outside world?<br /> The record of successive leaders in the EB is hardly encouraging either. Have any of the leaders since JTjr been reformers? </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/3#post-30080 Mon, 21 May 2012 05:21:08 +0000 Anonymous 30080@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Pardon me for butting in here as I think that they are all already traumatised, and will be for the rest of their lives without expert treatment in or out of that dreadful cult.</p> <p>Sideliner </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/spoof-reading/page/143#post-30079 Mon, 21 May 2012 05:16:41 +0000 Anonymous 30079@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Oh I believe it.</p> <p>I also believe in the Tooth Fairy, Cookie Monster and Santa Claus </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/what-is-eb-teaching-about-tithing/page/2#post-30078 Mon, 21 May 2012 05:15:17 +0000 Anonymous 30078@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Yes, it's strange that a well-meant invitation could ever be refused with the explanation, "We're Christians and we don't eat with those outside our fellowship".</p> <p>Returning briefly to the long Christian history of hospitality and care for others, I was interested to find the following poem written by the Emperor Charlemagne (c 742-814) to the Benedictine monks at Monte Cassino, Italy (a country he had captured). He obviously had good memories of their welcome. If you live in Scotland, you can see this poem inscribed on a bronze sculpture by Eduardo Paolozzi (1924-2005) in Picardy Place, Edinburgh.</p> <p>MANUSCRIPT OF MONTE CASSINO<br /> Ad Paulum diaconum</p> <p>Hinc celer egrediens facili, mea carta, volatu<br /> per silvas, colles,valles quoque prepete cursu<br /> alma deo cari Benedicti tecta require.<br /> Est nam certa quies fessis venientibus illuc,<br /> hic olus hospitibus, piscis hic, panis abundans;<br /> pax pia, mens humilis, pulcra et concordia fratrum,<br /> laus amor et cultus Christi simul omnibus horis.</p> <p>Translation:</p> <p>Written to Paul the Deacon at Monte Cassino</p> <p>Across the hills and in the valley’s shade,<br /> Along the small script goes,<br /> Seeking for Benedict’s beloved roof,<br /> Where waits its sure repose.<br /> They come and find, the tired travellers,<br /> Green herbs and ample bread,<br /> Quiet and brothers' love and humbleness,<br /> Christ’s peace on every head.</p> <p>[The 'script' in line two refers to the manuscript of this poem - it would have taken a while for post to travel to Italy in those days.]</p> <p>Joan </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/what-is-eb-teaching-about-tithing/page/2#post-30077 Mon, 21 May 2012 04:17:26 +0000 Anonymous 30077@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p><blockquote>What would they have done if one of these had said to them, "Come and have supper with us one evening. We'd like to get to know you in a more relaxed atmosphere"? </blockquote></p> <p>They would obviously have had to say 'no'. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/eb-adjust-time-of-breaking-of-bread/page/3#post-30076 Mon, 21 May 2012 03:57:38 +0000 johnw 30076@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p><blockquote>So maybe JT Jnr was all wrong!!</blockquote></p> <p>Come on, Phil! </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/2#post-30075 Mon, 21 May 2012 03:55:47 +0000 johnw 30075@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>I would not wish the EB to implode, explode or any other ode. I would wish them to reform but that can only happen by the Universal Leader removing himself and the Universal Leader system being disbanded. Meanwhile, my wish is for the individual member to see nothing more or less than truth, just what is really going on.</p> <p>I agree with Ian that a sudden end would traumatise people. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/what-is-eb-teaching-about-tithing/page/2#post-30074 Mon, 21 May 2012 03:54:52 +0000 Joan 30074@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Thinking about the New Testament directives to do good to everyone and be hospitable, I realised that that poses a particular difficulty for the Hales Exclusive Brethren - inasmuch as providing any form of care in the community necessitates networking with non-members. </p> <p>This was, of course, enormously valuable in the days of the early church because it enabled Christians to evangelise effectively in the Graeco-Roman world. A person who was nursed through an epidemic (smallpox between 165-180 AD is described by Galen and the 'plague' between 251-266 AD by Cyprian) would have been open to any approach and kindness from Christian strangers. </p> <p>Mainstream churches today tend to accept the networking that care in the community involves, and they welcome people who come into congregations that way and value liaison with non-members and secular agencies. At the time of the Christchurch earthquake in New Zealand, members of this group of Brethren responded admirably to the community's need for fresh food, but it may have been difficult for them to develop relationships with the clergy, Christians and citizens among whom they worked then. What would they have done if one of these had said to them, "Come and have supper with us one evening. We'd like to get to know you in a more relaxed atmosphere"? </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/2#post-30073 Mon, 21 May 2012 02:49:46 +0000 Anonymous 30073@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>For what its worth I think there will be a split and a huge number will end up in the renton eb.</p> <p>I don't think it will be a split over eb principles or bible principles but will be over the aspects of business, money and control. They will end up in the rentons as that is the closest to the eb principles they have grown up with and is about the only place left that continues to follow "these great mend" and seperation.</p> <p>It will be the end of any reform in the rentons, as they will be outnumbered by hard line eb coming in </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/2#post-30072 Mon, 21 May 2012 02:19:44 +0000 Ian 30072@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>In the short term a complete collapse of the EB system would be extremely traumatic for many of its members, because they have come to depend on it to make decisions for them. </p> <p>Many of them have never developed the skills they need for making their own decisions about what to believe, how to behave, how to interact with ordinary people, how to look for a job, how to get a mortgage, how to choose a school for their children or how to pursue life-long education for themselves. </p> <p>Added to this, it would be emotionally traumatic to have to admit that they had been following and supporting a sham for most of their life. There would be many disagreements about religion and probably many families torn apart by these disagreements, because they have lived all their lives in a culture of intolerance, and never learned how to live happily with diversity of opinion. </p> <p>For these reasons I don’t want to see the EB system collapsing suddenly or suffering multiple schisms. It would be better if it voluntarily underwent radical reform or if it just slowly died out by a process of gradual attrition. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/what-is-eb-teaching-about-tithing/page/2#post-30071 Mon, 21 May 2012 01:57:23 +0000 Ian 30071@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>As a specific example of doing good to everyone, the New Testament tells us to provide hospitality to strangers. See Hebrews 13:2 and 1 Timothy 5:10. As well as being a Christian principle it is also taught and practised by Muslims. If they see a total stranger, even an obviously foreign stranger like me passing through their village they will often approach him and offer food or accommodation. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/spoof-reading/page/143#post-30070 Mon, 21 May 2012 00:10:45 +0000 Anonymous 30070@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>I'd like to be a bit more clear on the ''Rapture''-so let me get this straight-all the brethren are supposed to work really hard and make as much money as possable-which they then turn over to Our Beloved Brother who labours so tirelessly amongst us-ok-got that .Now,then-the question is-will Our Beloved Brother who works so tirelssly amongst us get raptured FIRST? and we that remain will be caught up later....see,I know I shouldn't be thinking this-but-could it be-just maybe-Our Beloved Brother who works so tirelessly amongst us ,sells up all the real estate he holds title to-grabs the loot and just plain disappears-and all the saints,instead of seeing they've been well and truly conned - will nod their heads wisely and say-well, he TOLD us he would be raptured didn't he?......funny he was able to take his money with him though,ah well,that just shows how spiritual he was-and you know what?-some people will actually believe it.... </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/spoof-reading/page/143#post-30069 Sun, 20 May 2012 22:41:03 +0000 Fred Flintstone 30069@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>I was thinking about the encouragement of our brother Ex Centris there...'Cool before serving' and wondered if there would be a link somewhere in the way One approaches One's public service. Would there be something in that for all of us do you feel? Or am I going ahead of the Lord at this juncture of The Testimony? Just enquiring for help for the sake of the young people you have to understand.</p> <p>Now what else? Busy, busy , busy...So busy doing The Lord's work...Tell you.</p> <p>See, we are all working so hard in our businesses; think of the blessed injunction we received from our beloved blubber to work a straight 24 hours once a week in our businesses, to make as much money as possible in the next 2 to 3 years, as we will then all be able to retire, and attend meetings 2 to 3 times a day and await The Rapture.</p> <p>You know you may not know this ....but our Beloved Blubber is The Lord's Rapture Coordinator! TRUE! HONESTLY!!</p> <p>We are all so busy in our work you know; its amazing. It is all about making more money.</p> <p>That is definitely what we need to get on board with. If you are not owning your own business you should be working for brothers and working 24 hours a day at least once a week or you could be found to be remiss and lose your way, lose your faith in the system, lose your faith in our Beloved brother and for good measure we will throw in God there as well. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/2#post-30068 Sun, 20 May 2012 20:40:09 +0000 Anonymous 30068@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>The eb leaders and heirarchy don't like the truther being aired. Many folks are imprisoned in the eb unable to get out because they feel it will harder out than in. They will lose their familty, contact, be left destitute probably, and they don't want that to happen. It would be a good thing if the whole system crumbled. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/research-on-former-members-of-the-exclusive-brethren-heb/page/2#post-30067 Sun, 20 May 2012 18:45:52 +0000 Tar Baby 30067@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Jill said</p> <p><blockquote> people leaving do not have the skills to live in the outside world. I would agree with that</blockquote>.</p> <p>I agree too. I am still learning and so very thankfull to have met with various very caring friends after being left with almost none.</p> <p>And 29988, if I didn't love the brethren (that is the persons) I wouldn't actually bother visiting peebs.net </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/eb-adjust-time-of-breaking-of-bread/page/3#post-30066 Sun, 20 May 2012 17:52:36 +0000 Anonymous 30066@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>In Act 20: 7 to 12 Paul and the other Christians held their communion in the evening. - Maybe for slaves and tradespeople to be able to attend. So maybe JT Jnr was all wrong!! The bible gives no specific time for this occasion. Just another legal rule from the EB.</p> <p>Oh dear</p> <p>Phil T. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/bbc-the-big-question-sunday-20th-may-2012#post-30065 Sun, 20 May 2012 17:49:42 +0000 Anonymous 30065@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>there's red flags all over the place in reguards to the EB ,but I doubt they will listen or recognise them ,anymore than we did when we were psychologically trapped in there.You have to be outside before you recognise the signs.</p> <p>My only hope that they won't follow the other cults into a similar fate as those in Waco or Jonestown is they love money too much. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/what-is-eb-teaching-about-tithing/page/2#post-30064 Sun, 20 May 2012 17:45:28 +0000 Anonymous 30064@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Further to the comments of Joan and Ian above, here are a few bible references the early Christian church put into practice, and thankfully, so many still do today. Quotes are from the ESV.</p> <p><blockquote>Gal 6:10<br /> 10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith. </p> <p>Heb 13:16<br /> 16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.</p> <p>James 4:17<br /> 17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. </blockquote></p> <p>May the good work continue!</p> <p>Phil T. - Canada </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/bbc-the-big-question-sunday-20th-may-2012#post-30063 Sun, 20 May 2012 17:20:15 +0000 Ian 30063@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>That is a pretty good summary. There are many characteristic shared by most cults, but some are almost universal among all cults. I think the most telling and the most diagnostic are:<br /> 1. Barriers to exit. It is made difficult and traumatic for members to leave.<br /> 2. Separation from non-members.<br /> 3. Obedience to the supreme leader.<br /> 4. Control of communications, often including education.<br /> 5. Claim of special revelation, or a special, privileged insight into divine truth. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/bbc-the-big-question-sunday-20th-may-2012#post-30062 Sun, 20 May 2012 15:53:41 +0000 Anonymous 30062@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>Having watched this program today, it seemed some very valid comments were drowned out by constant bickering, talking over each other and interruptions. </p> <p>While that is par for the course for these types of programs, especially one like this which was bound to generate a lot of heat, it would have been more productive to have proper debate.</p> <p>One thing I took away from the program was this – Cults/Sects very often reveal themselves by how they treat – 1. Outsiders - 2. People who leave</p> <p>1. Any group which cuts itself off from interaction with the outside world either physically or religiously, or often both, is on dangerous ground. Any group which treats outsiders as in error, inferior, not worthy of proper human interaction is on dangerous ground.</p> <p>2. Any group which actively, through a range of methods and tactics, tries to prevent anybody from leaving the group, is on dangerous ground. These may include use of tactics involving, psychological and emotional pressure, physical, scare and fear tactics, using family relationships as leverage and using threats and slander. Any group which puts members through a coordinated plan of action to attempt to stop someone leaving is on dangerous ground. Any group which cuts someone off who leaves i.e. from family and friends, is also very suspicious.</p> <p>Another thing I took away from the program was that Sects/Cults have one thing in common with all of them. That is, they proclaim they have some kind of special “new light” or “special revelation” or “special teaching” that no one else has. Looking for example at sects/cults loosely based on Christianity or attempting to link with the name of Christianity, groups all claim there is a need to read “our special light, our revelation” to be able to fully understand the bible.</p> <p>The other thing thats worthy of note is the amount of Children who are "born into" a sect/cult. These poor kids have had no choice about joining. Their only chance is for them to somehow discover what the group is really about </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/bbc-the-big-question-sunday-20th-may-2012#post-30061 Sun, 20 May 2012 15:53:27 +0000 Charles 30061@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>"I have a horrible hunch that this will end in a similar fashion!".</p> <p>W Blower,</p> <p>I sincerely hope you are wrong in your hunch. The various items of news that have been posted on Peebs net recently I have found to be disturbing, so much so that I don't want to keep reading about them or coming on Peebs net.. For example the go-ahead being given for the building of a brethren complex in Lisarow NSW against the deeply held misgivings of the local residents. These misgivings are not personal antagonism against the brethren individuals but simply a wish to keep their rural environment as it has always been. Why are the Hales EBs so insistent on these expansions projects, showing they don't care about the wishes of anyone else ? I noticed on the Friends Alive site that someone has written today, "The brethren system is getting more and more evil by the day ..." and that was written by some one inside. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/bbc-the-big-question-sunday-20th-may-2012#post-30060 Sun, 20 May 2012 15:08:15 +0000 Anonymous 30060@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>I have a horrible hunch that this will end in a similar fashion. Could BDH stand the humiliation of being found out for what he really is ? Just another boring office furniture salesman (Not without respect to all other good office furniture salesmen who don't attempt to take over the world !)</p> <p>One only has to look at the vocations of previous MOGs to see there's nothing special there at all........Linen Salesmen, Pig Farmers, Accountants and Office Furniture Salemen. Nothing academical, learned or pastoral, simply ambitious, chancer political types who just happened to 'make it'.</p> <p>W Blower </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/bbc-the-big-question-sunday-20th-may-2012#post-30059 Sun, 20 May 2012 13:55:49 +0000 Ian 30059@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>I was interested in the fact that a Waco survivor who lost several family members at the Waco holocaust still thinks David Koresh was a great guy and a prophet sent by God, who was leading his people in a quest for the truth. </p> <p>This has some bearing on a question that I have asked several times on peebs.net. How bad does a cult leader have to become, how evil do his deeds have to be, before his followers will turn away from him? </p> <p>Jim Taylor did some pretty dreadful things, but tens of thousands of his followers still followed him blindly. His deeds were apparently not bad enough to convince them that he was an impostor. </p> <p>Plenty of eyewitnesses have said that David Koresh sexually and physically abused children and orchestrated a mass suicide and/or murder of his followers. Apparently that is still not bad enough to overcome the blind, unconditional devotion of some of his followers. </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/business-park-to-include-church#post-30058 Sun, 20 May 2012 11:41:45 +0000 Anonymous 30058@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>30057</p> <p>Isnt that what the Branch Davidians tried to do at Waco in the 1990's and look how that ended up !! nightmare thought ! </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/business-park-to-include-church#post-30057 Sun, 20 May 2012 11:11:48 +0000 Anonymous 30057@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>now they just need to add apartments, schools and a company store-thow up a fence, and 24 hour security manning the gates and there you have it-the ulitmate in ''separation''from the ''world'' </p> http://peebs.net/forums/The_Coffee_Shop/spoof-reading/page/143#post-30056 Sun, 20 May 2012 11:03:13 +0000 Anonymous 30056@http://peebs.net/forums/ <p>oh-and just to answer those wicked people who will no doubt say that with a gated community like that-no one would know what was going on in there-there could be rape, incest,abuse-and no one would find out[what goes in in the colony stays in the colony-ok?-and don't you forget it either.]</p> <p>But the simple answer is-''such things are not even named amongst us'',of course''some things need to be understood....</p> <p>frightning isn't it?-and don't say it couldn't happen-because many people who live in ''closed communites''already do...so close to the EB it's scary-and the EB are only one small step away from ''new direction''. </p>