So the HEB is the place to be???
They have a business masquerading as a church with no Biblical reference whatsoever the Brethren [are] right where they want them.
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Anonymous
UnregisteredPost # 25506 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
Unregisteredthe EB systematic brainwashing that has resulted in the brethren buying the line that they are somehow''special'' has made for fertile ground for oportunistic unscrupulous men to capitalize on this and make gain off the brethren who are so indoctrinated by the self serving and rigidly enforced teaching of ''separation'' they have nothing to compare the EB with.They have been born and brought up in it-they have never experianced anything else,they have no contacts with other believers,and so while they may have missgivings from time to time-truely believe there is no other alternative-so they just take it on the chin.I know because I once was in the exactly same position-thinking there was nothing outside,no christian fellowship-no christian teaching and if there were any believers in ''Christendom''-they were at best ''worldly''.How could there be-''we'' held the truth and ''we'' had the light,''we'' judged evil, ''we'' were ''maintaining a clean place for the Lord''we'' were ''faithful'' -and the Lord could only come to us-right?
it was all about ''us'' and ''we'' -not the Lord at all.....what it was was pride-and God hates it
Post # 25511 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredI know a number of hard working ,caring dedicated ''full time workers'' who have spent their lives serving the Lord and his people.They are qualifed for overseers according to Pauls list of the attributes required for leadership.They work in conjuction with elders and deacons to lead and guide the people who attend their church.while they keep business hours in theory-I know they don't shut off their phone at night.Their salaries-well below what they could earn in the ''world''are set by the elders and deacons.The Church has an annual business meeting where all expenses-including salaries,are made public.The people who support the church know how much comes in how much goes out and where it goes.You call it ''accountability''
The EB not only know nothing of this-they despise it,and thats why they are in the mess they are in-a disgrace to the Christian testimony -evident to everyone else except themselves
Post # 25512 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredIf anyone can understand what this means, please let me know!
Accustomed as they were to a universal point of clarification and interference in local matters the REB's are in division among themselves lacking any heavy handed diktat from New York or Sydney.
They cannot fall back on written ministry to cover every 'issue' which arises in the worldwide fellowship.
Whereas at one time they could point to total agreement and compliance they cannot now as posted by one of their number who underscored the fact that some meetings had differing judgments, assessments, the Lord's mind ,even within the one local meeting room and reckoned that differing opinions were acceptable yet their charter is 'sitting down at the Lord's table all OF ONE MIND, all one with the''Truth' and all issues settled 'before the Lord's Day.'
Presently and maybe even through reading these submissions they who are honest will find themselves at confusing distance from the hardline, leading brothers living in the old days, and possibly some who are noting an awakening in their renewed mind. The absence of a great leader in their REB and StrangEB groups leaves them in a quandary surely.
Post # 25556 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Ian
MemberI think the Anonymous Disciple meant that the REB, having rejected dictatorship (or “universal leadership”) no longer have a reliable way to settle disagreements, so they now have more diversity of opinions.
He sees this as a problem or a weakness, whereas I see it as a good sign. When I see complete uniformity of religious opinion I suspect that something is wrong, perhaps coercion, perhaps suppression of dissent, perhaps feigned agreement, perhaps hypocrisy, perhaps bigotry; but when I see diversity it suggests that there must be at least some measure of tolerance, honesty, spiritual maturity or humility.
Post # 25564 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredBut the REB are not really allowed to, lets not deceive ourselves. That’s why genuine Christians are still “withdrawn from” for not toeing the party line.
The disagreement comes in over the process of “withdrawal”, how it is conducted, what is said, what is done and how its justified. This differs from locality to locality. This causes huge hypocrisy and difference of treatment of those who are “withdrawn from”. Some are treated very well during the process, with the excuse given that “its just something we have to do”. Others are treated appallingly, with long protracted psychological pressure and emotional stress applied and a nasty, vindictive bombardment of brethren doctrine to justify actions and why those who leave are turning away from Christ.
The simple fact there is no “universal leader” anymore, is not in anyway dissolving the application of Exclusive Brethren doctrine and teachings or diluting the deference to the teachings of the “fathers of the recovery”, JT etc.
In fact the lack of “universal leadership” has left the REB with no sense of direction or purpose (not that I am agreeing with a “One Leader” approach). It has left them at the mercy of local personality and local issues being simply hidden. The rule of “one locality (meeting) can not interfere with another” is applied in some cases but not in others. Often leaving some completely isolated unable to defend themselves against the local heavies.
The one thing that remains constant with no diversity of opinion is the slavish devotion to most aspects of the separation doctrine, especially the decree that members should keep separate from all other Christian churches and groups. Any that exercise the right to fellowship with other Christians or who choose to leave are branded as “having gone back into the world”. Regarding this aspect amongst the main body of the REB there is no “measure of tolerance, honesty, spiritual maturity or humility” at all.
Post # 25569 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredRefreshing if REB are able to ask questions and express doubts and hold more than one view about non-essential items.
What, like toilet rolls?Post # 25570 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
johnw
MemberOh for goodness sake. I'm getting increasingly tired of people who make wisecracks and even offensive comments from behind a wall of anonymity.
Do you really need to hide or is because you won't take responsibility for what you say? At least use a consistent nickname like a number of others do.
Post # 25571 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredJohn w, yes, when in the renton fellowship, I eventually found myself asking the same question
O for goodness sake
When faced with a complete lack of ability to accept a different viewpoint on scripture other than, we have always been taught. And when faced with a total lack of understanding that there may actually be other Christians in Christendom who are not part of a church that has clergy, symbols and images, incense etc
Who we could have had communion with.That's why I eventually left
Post # 25572 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredI wrote post 25569 but did not write post 25570 , just for clarity
Post # 25573 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredThe weakness of leadership in EB circles is now self evident. Yes, they have eschewed universal leadership and still struggle among themselves as what is right or wrong.
I repeat that total adherence to their teaching once marked every local gathering and gave them a basis for claiming uniformity in their teaching and their local judgments. They had a papal system, not quite seeing the fact...we see it now.Now they have local dictators overuling the convictions of others who may have misgivings hence how many are moving away from their confused and confusing situation and freeing themselves from a weak position .
Someone kindly posted recently "a house divided against itself cannot stand." Lost WEAK and almost helpless and maybe looking for succour in these entries.Those who have left the system of demand recently, themselves show some spiritual maturity while indicating the absence of honesty in so many issues facing the Brethren who go against the grain of Scripture in a losing attempt to retain membership of a atrophied organisation.
Is there much strength left in Exclusive Brethrenism?
Anonymous disciple.
Post # 25579 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Rev
MemberIt was 25570 that wound me up. As far as I am now concerned the same person wrote them all. John W - Post Number 25575
For clarity again - I wrote 25569 but not 25570 - I could not log in at the time but in hindsight should still have signed my post as Rev - feel free to check that with site admin if necessary.
Post # 25586 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Paladino
Memberthere may actually be other Christians in Christendom who are not part of a church that has clergy, symbols and images, incense etc
Who we could have had communion with.That means you wouldn't be able to have communion with the overwhelming majority of Christians!
Almost all Christian denominations have clergy of one sort or another (whether called elders, pastors, ministers or priests etc), and the large majority display a cross as a symbol of allegiance.
At a guess, the majority of church buildings internationally contain images of some sort (not that I'm very keen on them myself, as the one thing you can be sure of is that the person portrayed didn't actually look like that).
And if you are going to refuse communion to someone who attends a church where they use incense, logically you should exclude any women - or men for that matter - who wear perfume in church! Memo: must remember not to use underarm next Sunday.
Post # 25588 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredIs not our God, Father , Son and Holy Ghost deeply offended that the vast, the overwhelming majority of the people called by God ,
are considered to be unfit to remember the death of Christ, its overwhelmingly deep meaning and effect, so demeaned by unbiblical doctrine so ingrained from early years, into the EB psyche?.Wake up Brethren people. arise from the half dead, leave the vain tradition of your fathers and Christ will surely shine on you. This means of communication by computer science has in part at least, been designed for you.
Every added blessing ANONYMOUS DISCIPLE.
Post # 25621 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredIf anyone can understand what this means, please let me know!
Accustomed as they were to a universal point of clarification and interference in local matters the REB's are in division among themselves lacking any heavy handed diktat from New York or Sydney.
They cannot fall back on written ministry to cover every 'issue' which arises in the worldwide fellowship.
Whereas at one time they could point to total agreement and compliance they cannot now as posted by one of their number who underscored the fact that some meetings had differing judgments, assessments, the Lord's mind ,even within the one local meeting room and reckoned that differing opinions were acceptable yet their charter is 'sitting down at the Lord's table all OF ONE MIND, all one with the''Truth' and all issues settled 'before the Lord's Day.'
Presently and maybe even through reading these submissions they who are honest will find themselves at confusing distance from the hardline, leading brothers living in the old days, and possibly some who are noting an awakening in their renewed mind. The absence of a great leader in their REB and StrangEB groups leaves them in a quandary surely.
Over-medication by self? Using illegal combustible substances? Illegal intoxicants added to exclusive brethren cultspeak is an unmistakable combination.
Post # 25625 - Posted 2 months ago LINK -
Anonymous
UnregisteredIf you want to be a Christian it is more important that you be a real one rather than be tied up in all sort of ecclesiastical doctrinal issues.
I believe in the Creeds and always have and I stick to the simplicity of that. It is a directly opposite attitude to EB-ISM but I have left that so what should I want to carry as much of it across to somewhere else as I can? I don't regard images in churches as idols by simply as symbols. Nothing could be more idolatrous than the BDH and 'great' men photos, nor the bowing and scraping to BSH in real life.
Where ever the name of God is spoken well of, and/or the Scritpures read and honoured, I am happy to be a communicant member of the congregation. Where 2 or 3 are gathered ... it could not be much simpler than that.
Other PF
Post # 25637 - Posted 2 months ago LINK
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