This page contains entries made in May, 2003.
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He would, of course, be taken aside by the elders and warned that, although this was a 'public meeting', it was not suitable for anyone from the street outside to walk into it. To visit again he would have to show that he was sincere about his interest in the proceedings.
In further examinations by the priests, he would be required to come to it that the beloved leaders of the recovery had rightly decreed that beards were forbidden - so he would have to shave his off.
But the real reason that he was totally unclean and undesirable was his deliberate eating and drinking with tax-gatherers, harlots and sinners. Behaviour that is incompatible with Christianity.
Am I missing something here? Or, on the other hand, are they?
Guest: Eunice Truan Goodwin
Guest E-mail: dgoodwin@icx.net
City, Country: Knoxville, TN USA
Date & Comments: May 1, 2003
I'm always amazed that so few of us USA ex PBs write in to the guestbook. I have been away from the meeting since 1964 and consider myself "recovered" but find the entries both interesting and heart-breaking. I have friends and family who have been contacted recently by their EB families and this latest dictate must be strange and uncomfortable for both parties.
I was at our local Walmart last week and who should be set up out front but a family of EBs selling candy. I declined to purchase but asked what the fundraiser was for. The mom answered that it was for their private school. Once again, financial considerations override contact with us "worldly" folk! The pendulum swing seems to occur everywhere, even with the EBs.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: charliescu@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: May 1, 2003
Thankyou Karen for your entry 29/4/03. Thanks for your advice. I had never heard of Independant Brothers. I am interested in making contact with them for my own interests. Could you please give me some contacts? Thankyou, Charlie.
Guest: Candace M
Date & Comments: May 1, 2003
Eunice's accounting of the Walmart encounter is so far removed from my remembrance of daily Peeb-life that it seems unreal. I wonder if a price-premium was placed on the candies/lollies because they were prepared by pure hands?
Gerard's comments? Touché! If such legendaries as Jesus Christ would be disavowed and shunned by Peebs, how can mere mortals of 2003 ever hope to meet The System's Standards? Impossible! The whole business, past and present is preposterously impossible.
With ever-growing concern and sadness for the dictatorially-ruled "ins".
Candace M
Guest: Katrina McIntosh (nee Cooper)
City, Country: MACKAY, QLD AUSTRALIA
Date & Comments: May 2, 2003
I left the EB's in 1994, one very lost and confused girl. I am now married with 4 young children. My eldest is in grade one, second in presechool, and my youngest are 3 and 1 years old. My husband Wayne is currently studying Deisel Fitting and Machining at TAFE. I'm a stay at home mum at the moment. Anyone wishing to contact me can either ring me on (07) 49696640/ mobile 0403 547 511, or write to me at 6 Lazarus Court, Eimeo MACKAY QLD 4740. Thank you. Trina
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: May 2, 2003
An interesting speculation on what would happen if Jesus came into a PB meeting. To start with, he would more likely be found walking the stroll in the inner city, maybe stop and ask one of the girls where he could get a drink of water maybe he would be found chatting with the drug addicts, panhandlers and and drunks. But wherever he was, there'd be a group of people around him, and not the classiest of folks either. I doubt if you'd find any of the clergy there, except maybe the youth pastors and street workers.
Walk into a PB church? I doubt if they'd get a chance to take him aside and question him on where he stood in relation to the matter of JT. jr being a "pure man" or any of the "elect vessels"-I think Jesus might well do what he did last time when he walked into the temple-he talked about what they had done to his Fathers house.....
Guest: Cherie Thomas (Carnwath)
Guest E-mail: puckhead@peoplepc.com
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: May 3, 2003
If you think a candy sale at Walmart is something the peebs would never do, what do you think about a huge garage/bake sale??!!
The Detroit brethren are having their second annual garage and bake sale next week. It is to help raise funds for their school too.
All the brethren get stuff together that they want to donate and it is picked up from their homes and delivered to one of the brethren's business where they hold the sale.
I heard last year's sale brought in quite a haul!!
Guest: John & Yvonne Walton
Guest E-mail: jwalton@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Date & Comments: May 5, 2003
The amazing story surrounding our coming out of EBs in 1969 is available in a life story book I am writing. This extract is available on request.
Thankfully all our five children are now serving the Lord. Two are pastoring a large Christian church in Wellington. I am also pastoring a large church in Palmerson North, N.Z.
I met my sister & brother-in-law (still in) at Easter after 35 years --- we spent a wonderful two & a half hours together. My older brother Ken 80 years old (still in) met my other sister (77) last week after 58 years. I am 68 years old, Yvonne now 60; both in great health we live in the constant attitude of gratefulness.
I had wonderful parents James & Cassie Walton now gone, but sadly was never informed of their death. Yvonne's loving Dad Bob Windust died in EB's, her mother Elsie now speaks to her by telephone.
God is so good.
Love to all our ex-Brethren,
John & Yvonne (Walton)
Guest: Jill Mytton
Guest E-mail: e.j.mytton@uel.ac.uk
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 5, 2003
On behalf of a friend I am looking for contact or news of three members of the BROWN family from Reigate - namely Andrew, Anthony and Peter. If anyone has any news or Andrew, Anthony and Peter you are reading this, please contact me in confidence.
Thanks
Jill
Guest: Mary
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 5, 2003
In response to Candace's comments about the rescreening of the Everyman programme and to anyone who wishes to comment on the programme : although Mr. Nick Gray has produced the film, he would be unlikely to have any control over scheduling. The most direct way of contacting the BBC, without getting lost in the various programme sites is as follows :
Go to: www.bbc.co.uk/info/contact/com_email.shtml
Ignore the first two paragraphs - they just land you back where you don't want to be. Under 'BBC programme or Topic' write: See Hear Everyman Exclusive Brethren (no punctuation) BBC Network : BBC1 Date of Transmission : Wednesday, 7 May 2003
Express your appreciation of Mr. Gray's programme and your wish that more be done to raise the profile of this cult. Also express your disappointment at the scheduling times and your wish that the programme (or other ones on the same subject) may be screened again at a time when it is more likely to be seen by a larger part of the population.
Together you can all make a difference and, please, trust 'outsiders' who wish to help you.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 6, 2003
After leaving the PBs in excess of 10 years ago and having established a happy lives for ourselves and our children, the constant harasment from them over the last 8 months or so has led to many emotions resurfacing and causing numerous problems within our marriage. I am not sure what their motives really are, but if it is to break up relationships and a previously happy home then they have succeded. My wife is now suffering from severe depression and we are so unhappy and have no one to turn to. I'm devastated. I hate the lot of them and hope they rot in hell. Why couldn't they leave us alone?
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: May 6, 2003
As several posters have said, the recent contact by the PB's has caused a lot of emotions to resurface, and a brought back a lot of memories.
The thing to see in all this is, we are not under either their power or influence anymore, and the visits are even cathartic, as we see them for what they are- a poor cariacture of christianity, manipulated by their self serving leadership, without the ability to think or act for themselves, but equally, thankfully, beyond the ability to hurt or influence our lives anymore.
If the so called "revue" was an expression of genuine repentance, then it would be incumbent on us to respond to it, and forgive them as we have been forgiven, but the fact is, the "revue" is nothing more than one more example of them being told to "jump" and they are kneejerk responding by saying "how high?" But, after 40 odd years of that- what else can you expect?
Take the visits for what they are, use them to see family and friends again, but do not be intimidated by them. They can't hurt you anymore.
Guest: Phil - Canada
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Victoria, Canada
Date & Comments: May 6, 2003
To (supressed by request) UK of May 6, 2003
If you have any further harrassment, tell them that if they do not leave you alone, you will arrange a court order against them prohibiting their calling you, either personally, in writing, or by phone.
God bless.
Phil - Canada
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: sheilamac1@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 6, 2003
To suppressed by request 6th May OUT in excess of 10 years. I really feel so sorry for you being pestered in the way you have. I realise it must be awful and it is so hard to deal with. Please try to get your wife to speak to her doctor and ask for help. I too suffered from depression contributed to considerably by the whole EB situation. There are lots of new types of anti-depressants which are very successful and would help your wife get through what I know is almost unbearable stress and upset in your lives. The most important thing is that you stick together as a family and ask for help, doctors can help and they can direct you towards counselling, it is their job to do this, and don't be embarrassed to ask. You do have the right to protect you family from all this, it is not acceptabe for these people to harrass you in any way, or contact you when this is against your wishes, even if they are family members. You can contact me by email if you wish, perhaps your wife would like to email me just to have a chat, sometimes it helps to share what you are going through, I know only too well just how unsettling contact with them can be and I am happy to help if I can.
SM
Guest: Sarah Rowlands
Guest E-mail: rowlie76@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: May 7, 2003
To Suppressed by Requested / 6 May 2003.
Just want to let you know that I fully understand how you must be feeling and what you must be going through, I have experienced something similar.
I am just 27 myself (now married to a non-peeb) and have been out for just over four years. So much has happened and there has been a huge amount of hurt but I try to remember that tomorrow is always better than today and that you're not put through more than you can handle.
Take care, especially your wife.
Sarah
Guest: expeeb
Guest E-mail: expeeb@earthlink.net
Date & Comments: May 7, 2003
I feel for you and your wife. Yes, the new "review" business has opened old wounds and is very hard to deal with. Depression and confusion have resulted for many. Myself included. A counselor experienced with effects of cults is helping me immeasurably. I trust you and your family seek professional counsel. If nothing else, it helps to talk freely to an impartial ear.
It seems, in my personal opinion, in late 2002, the new Elect Vessel voiced: "We must cover our behinds and make up for "misinterpretations" of the will and words of my predecessors. Go thee, therefore, and apologize with a brief nod of recognition of the sins of our past ignorance. The "wronged" must be told they were wronged. Do your duty without succumbing to earthly feelings such as love. Acknowledge wrong but do not eat with them. Mix briefly, do not seek real bonds with the wronged. We must clear our conscience only." And so, they went forth to all corners of the Earth, spouting half-hearted apologies and wreaking havoc where ere they went.
Enough. We must stop their ability to bend our minds and hearts.
The ExB System, in my view, continues to be abusive - on an even more insidiously-elevated plain. Through confusing weeks of being assured I was wronged and had reason to be upset, "understanding" that life has been rough for me, etc. I never once heard the words "I am sorry".
Rote confessions to clear Peeb's communal consciences have not positively changed exPeeb's daily life. We still must cope torn between reality and wistful hope to renew old family bonds. I still hurt, I am still angry. I do have a separate, rather successful life. Thanks to my personal inner strength and unwillingness to accept ExB mind twisting. Something important will always be missing though..................unconditional love from my family!
Hang in there, UK, May 6th. Physically bond even closer together - you and yours! Reassurance through the warmth of loving, physical touch is a great healing.
Huge hugs to you, your wife and kiddos.
Candy M
Guest: Rod Wilkins
Guest E-mail: rodwilkins@exbrethren.com
City, Country: Brisbane, Australia
Date & Comments: May 7, 2003
Regarding recent postings on 'public meetings' - the following notice is displayed at the gates to the Brisbane meeting room:
BRETHREN MEETING ROOM
Place of Public Religious Worship
According to Brisbane City Council By-Law Ch3 Part 4 1g Information about meetings may be obtained by contacting the trustees by telephone 3398 2856 or 3399 4311
If anyone else feels like a spot of public worship, maybe we could go along as a group. Perhaps we could take a religious affairs journalist and an official from the Brisbane City Council along with us.
How about 21 May? I'm advised BDH will be taking meetings there that day.
Guest: Al
Guest E-mail: gatecrasher@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 7, 2003
Well Rod your memory must be fading a bit.
Do you really want to go to a meeting?
It is nearly 30 years since I last sat in one and it seems like only hours ago. Another 30 years would be too soon in my book.
Must admit it would be a laugh if a load of people gatecrashed one though.
Next time you are back in Blighty give me a bell and we will go and visit one. I will give you a lift on the motorbike and we will turn up on a Sunday afternoon and gain admittance. I somehow doubt that they would be able to remove me nor have the inclination to try.
The best way would be to take a local council official with us and let him witness how un public a place it was.
Guest: Newson Mike
Guest E-mail: mjksjnewson@cornwall98.freeserve.co.uk
Date & Comments: May 7, 2003
Guest: Pegram Gwyn (nee Newson)
Date & Comments: May 7, 2003
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: May 8, 2003
The Sunday Herald Sun in Melbourne will run a sizeable article in the newspaper on Sunday 11th May on the Exclusive Brethren in response to the recent publicity in the Media. They have tried access to an EB reading meeting in Melbourne on Weds night (and were knocked back) and also tried to call BDH. Should be interesting. Check out www.heraldsun.com.au on the day.
Guest: Deane Butcher
Guest E-mail: kymwilliams@chariot.net.au
City, Country: Adelaide Australia
Date & Comments: May 9, 2003
In response to Suppressed by request May 6th 2003
I just wished to send a message of consolation and to express regret at the harassment you've recieved. I've been through the antidepressants and nightmare phases of recovering from e.b. abuse and am extremely glad they're over, but now twenty years on they're on the phone wanting to visit to apologize but stressing repeatedly that they're "not lowering their standards" ( Well that would be impossible anyway. They just can't go any lower.). I can relate to the language. The longer I spoke to my brother on the phone the more I found myself using it, and the more agitated I became. I am aware of the stresses they create at all levels. Remember, Good prevails evil fails no matter what guise it appears in. Thinking of you and sending you positive energy. Deane
Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: pjfrench@celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: May 09, 2003
I have replied to the pathetic ramblings of Dear C211 that Dick has posted on the contributions page.
Are we getting under their skin or is this person trying to get 'Brownie Points' in the peebs?
Guest: Martyn Ricketts
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
Date & Comments: May 9, 2003
I realize many have been badly hurt by the system, but it can never justify the language describing the EB's that is appearing on this site.
Remember that the Lord Jesus endured all that we go through so that He can sympathize with us (Hebrews 4 v14-16)
He knew what it was like to be miss-understood by his own family, left alone by His nearest friends just when He needed them and the hardest of all to be forsaken by His Father for us so that we may never be forsaken.
For those who are hurting so much, remember the words of Jesus "Come to me ALL you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest to your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light" Matthew 11 v28-30
For those who crucified Jesus His words were "Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing"
Unless we forgive those who have hurt us we will always be locked in a prison of bitterness.
Again to those who are hurting, Jesus alone is your security and help in your time of need.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 9, 2003
Maybe C211 could remind his one of his spokesmen Mr Gordon Pollard ( the one with the HUGE eyebrows in the Everyman documentary ) that despite this much trumpeted 'review' taking place, there are still basic matters of honesty he has not seen fit to put right. [Final portion of message suppressed, available upon request. -RKW]
I would appreciate you reading the article by Doug Edwards called 'Hello Again After Many Years'. You will find it in the contributions section. If you read it you will understand why. Please give a frank and honest personal response to this and outline what parts of it you consider true, what parts you consider false? Where in this account is Satan exposing himself?
--Charles Turner
Guest: Iain Gibb
Guest E-mail: Iain.Gibb@campbell-lee.co.uk
City, Country: Grangemouth, Scotland, UK
Date & Comments: May 10, 2003
Wow - who would have believed it? The Iraqi Information Minister has got a new name, a new job and new dictatorship already, and has re-emerged as C211 of the EBs.
Be assured, there are 'no Americans in Iraq' and these men have 'faithfully preached glad tidings' as they broke up families and called godly men Sons of a Bitch and Damned Liars.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: victoria
Date & Comments: May 10, 2003
This website is a source of fustration to the PBs-for the simple reason it negates their "information control"and has provided a venue for any and all to post their experiances-again- a frustration to the PB leadership who will go to any effort to silence anyone daring to raise a question. However, the fact that Dick Wymen published the anonymous C211's letter is proof that he is unbiased in his publications, pro, or con. Too bad "C211" felt he had to remain anonymous- and even that should raise a question with him- or any of the other PB's reading this- why the secrecy. C211's letter exemplifys the PB posiion-they have the ability to totally ignore all facts, evidence and witness that demand investigation- as scripture plainly dictates we are obligated to do.
Much has been made of various issues, personalities etc.- but the real issue is whether or not we are prepared to be governed by the principal of witness. To not do so means judgements are being made with repect of persons- a clear violation of devine principle.
It's really that simple.
Guest: Gordon Mathison
Guest E-mail: gmathison@shaw.ca
City, Country: Langley, B.C., Canada
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
Just another e-mail address change for myself, my wife Donna and my (now) 14 years-young twin girls, Chantelle and Erin. My father, John Mathison now 87 says hello and God bless to all his PB (both ins and outs) friends.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
Melbourne HeraldSun Article on EB's will now be published later. will advise - John
Guest: SM
Guest E-mail: sheilamac1@aol.com
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
To C211, and the young believer of 9th May, who no longer intends to use the internet.
Just in case you are tempted to have another quick peep. There is a web site I found called BrethrenAssembly.com and it happens to have a clear researched description of what constitutes a cult.
There was so much on it I recognised that I would like to suggest you both take a look at the section entitled False Doctrines and False Cults, which leads to the section in particular I am referring to entitled Marks of a Cult.
Please bear in mind that not everything listed will necessarily be characteristic of every cult, but if you are prepared to read it without locking up your mind before you start you should find some things you recognise.
If and when you do read it, I would be interested to know if you are still prepared to believe that ALL the leaders you follow or have followed so blindly are right. I am sure some of them genuinely believed that what they said and did was right and was for the benefit of others, yes for some of them and the times in which they lived perhaps that was the case. But the proof is in the pudding as the saying goes and the long term results have not been very successful. Large numbers of individuals hurt and families permanently damaged by what several of them have preached. There is no justification for the way they treated people, and nothing which is done or said now can ever right these wrongs.
Don't you think there is something sadly wrong with a group of people who call themselves followers of Jesus, but at the same time have such disregard for the lives and feelings of their fellow men?
Guest: Deane Butcher
Guest E-mail: kymwilliams@chariot.net.au
City, Country: Adelaide, Australia
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
Most of the people who read these pages accept what other people have to say in whatever way they choose to say it. We even have to put up with the endless religious dribblings of some...
And that's the way it should be, freedom of expression and tolerance of other people's views.
Regards
Deane
Guest: Mary, UK
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
John, see if you can find out Why ! For a Melbourne paper to withdraw an article at this late stage - well, dubious, isn't it ? If you cannot find out, I shall try myself. Let me know.
Guest: Andy Giles
Guest E-mail: andygiles_@breathe.com
City, Country: Worthing, England
Date & Comments: May 12, 2003
Hi to all,
There has been rumours circulating since appearing on the Everyman documentry that I have gone back into the Brethren! Whilst the thought is a source of great amusement it is of course completely untrue. I am still happily 'withdrawn from', living life to the full and send my warmest regards to anyone who knows me.
I am a little wary of contributing regularly to this website due to the delicate legal situation regarding my children.
My contact details are in the 'names' section, be glad to hear from anyone who remembers me. And if you hear that I have gone back in - please put them straight....thanks!
Regards
Andy Giles
Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: john@johnweightman.charitydays.co.uk
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
Dear C211
Thank you for taking the time to write. You wrote:
"Such criticism and denigration placed in a ‘medium’ (Internet) which is not normally read by any of those in fellowship and is therefore not challenged, or come under scrutiny is cowardly."
You are, of course, free to write and challenge and scrutinise at any time, as are any of your fellow members. Indeed, I am writing this in response to an article you have freely written and which has been published unedited. The only restrictions are those imposed by yourselves.
I believe that the activities of this site are from time to time mentioned within your walls. May we have the same right to reply as you have here? May we have the freedom to challenge and scrutinise as you have excercised -albeit anonomously -here?. If you do not permit it you have yourself used an adjective to describe this response.
Sincerely
John
Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: PJFrench@Celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Date & Comments: May 11, 2003
To Martyn Ricketts in particular, and by extension to those who react as he does to many contributions on this site.
You state that -
...Unless we forgive those who have hurt us we will always be locked in a prison of bitterness...
There are 2 things that help many people who have been maltreated - sympathy and empathy. I for one, do not always find your messages evidence this.
You misunderstand how people feel and accuse them of 'bitterness'.
You seem to regularly exhibit a form of support for the peebs, and put down for those who hurt. You are not alone in this, and many here have left the preaching and hypocritical attitude for very good reasons, to then find themselves being preached to as you seem to wish to do, and this reminds them of what they would rather forget for ever.
People come here for solace and support, and to state in a safe and secure environment, how they really feel. Please do not deny them of this great service.
Maybe you would really like to go back to the peebs if they would agree to your conditions - I would not stand in your way for one moment.
Please consider those who have suffered, and continue to do so in various ways.
To those who hurt and continue to suffer, you are safe here, and there are those who understand your plight. State what you think, and how you feel, and learn to ignore some messages if that helps. It has affected us all, but some seem to forget that. Keep writing, keep contributing, and don't let anyone's entries here stop you.
Peter French
Guest: Chris Harwood
Guest E-mail: ChrisH@PREC-bh.org.uk
City, Country: Buckhurst Hill, UK
Date & Comments: May 12, 2003
To: Deane Butcher @ May 11, 2003
... and secular dribblings of others.... West Ham drew with Birmingham which tells us nothing conclusive about the power of prayer! I forgot to pray that they wouldn't get relegated.
Sorry rest of the world, this is UK Premiership Soccer.
Guest: Bill, Perth
Date & Comments: May 12, 2003
Dear C211
C211 are you harbouring the Iraqi Information Minister? Have you been in contact with him? You sound like him! If not, would we be correct in assuming that you are in fact Bruce Hales aka the Elect Vessel?
Bruce, or shall we call you Brucie? -You wrote the article and had your Web Monitoring firm post it didn't you?
Dick Wyman posted it in full and unedited for all to see. This is called free speach, something not tolerated by yourself and your predecessors. I can't wait for your own version on Aberdeen and your spin on that sordid episode and how the event was covered up for over 30 years!!
We all look forward to hearing more from you.
Guest: John Smith
Guest E-mail: smithy1898@hotmail.com
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: May 13, 2003
I used to work for the Exclusives and although I attend an Anglican church, we got on pretty well, discussing the bible as well as social issues and more private family issues. At first, I was a bit daunted by what I felt was their "suspiciousness" but after a while all subsided. I found them to be quite caring and moved emotionally by certain issues. They were also against some of the Assemblies' teachings and actually corrected ME when I was too stern in a couple of scriptures regarding family members. Have they seen long, long ago what we are now seeing this world to be?? And acted in the only way they think is right??
If I had my time again, there`s not much more I`d love than to work in a place where I could have some rare input (and fun) with people such as these, the Exclusive Brethren.
Guest: Candace
Guest E-mail: expeeb@earthlink.net
Date & Comments: May 13, 2003
Rod,
Your suggestion of May 7th is brilliant. I trust you have gathered a large contingent of friends, government officials, TV crews, reporters, bar buddies etc. to join you at the May 21st Briz Brethren Meeting. Such an audience will surely cause the Elect Vessel to pop his top.
To guarantee entrance, be sure to "ticket" all would-be attendees with copies of relevant State and local statutes regarding requirements for tax-exempt status to this "Place of Public Religious Worship".
Wishing I could join you.
Candace
Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, Connecticut, USA
Date & Comments: May 13, 2003
I have entered the guest book to quote Francis of Assisi (1182?-1226) and I found that C211 has surfaced from the deep in total delusion.
Francis is reported to have said, "Present the Gospel all the time and if absolutely necessary use words."
Dear C211 the EBs do not present the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is not a charge that is a fact, evident by EB conduct, present and past.
Doug Edward's entry, which Charles Turner asked you to read C211, is one of many proofs that the EBs conduct is contrary to the Gospel. If C211 you do not think Doug wrote truthfully then I shall assure you he did. Doug is a friend of mine as are/were D and L. The crime perpetrated on D, L and their five small children is the direct work of a man you say you follow and honor. WOW.
Follow the man of the cross, the man with the empty tomb, Jesus Christ.
Only by grace, Victor
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw .ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: May 13, 2003
Can you imagine being a PB parent, trying to explain to your teenager that a cell phone is "evil"- because it "has no wires"- when the kid already know that all long distance phones operate with wireless technology? Can you imagine explaining to your kid why you have to cut the wires of the garage door opener on the house you just bought?
Now-with this level of credibility- you try and talk to your kid about illicit sex and drugs-and the very real dangers out there-your kid is going to evaluate your reasoning based on your theories about cell phones and garage door openers-and you think they are going to listen?
Guest: Candace
Guest E-mail: expeeb@earthlink.net
Date & Comments: 14 May 2003
RE: Media attention. Tonight, I have been contacting major media, via email and snail mail.
Example:
STORY SUGGESTIONS
Dateline NBC
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112
Re: Possible Topic/Investigation – US/UK Christian-based Cult
Dear Sir or Madam:
Please contact award-winning producer Nick Gray, BBC Religious and Ethics Dept., for information re the March 18, 2003 BBC2 Everyman program. This program, since re-aired, provided valuable, unbiased insight to an abusive, secretive, tax-avoiding (in my view) group that perpetrates Christian-based harm in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and other countries. The group's name (not acknowledged by them) is Exclusive Brethren, Taylorite version. Estimated worldwide membership is 50,000 (numbers vary).
Nick Gray’s "Untold Story" about his personal experiences and the BBC’s efforts to air the Everyman ExB-related program can be found here: www.cloudnet.com/~dwyman/nickgray1.html
PLEASE exPeebs - strike while the focus is hot.
Candance
Guest: Candace
Guest E-mail: expeeb@earthlink.net
Date & Comments: May 15, 2003
Having been a bare-toe scrambler for decades, I'm NOT inclined to rely on “scripture” to prop me up. However, I found some biblical words that hold true to my senses. Hence I share, out-of-context, a la familiar ExB style:
Timothy 2:4:16 (JND version)
“At my first defence no man stood with me, but all deserted me. May it not be imputed to them. But the Lord stood with me and gave me power, that through me the proclamation might be fully made, and all those of the nations should hear;…………”
With faith something higher than me also kicks butt.
Now, please contact YOUR media re the ExB's!!!
Smiles, salutations and huge hugs to all.
Candace
Guest: Sarah Rowlands
Guest E-mail: rowlie76@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: May 15, 2003
This is for Tina Davey, Guildford, I am hoping you may read this Tina.
I heard you left the EB a while ago and would love to hear from you .... we had some good laughs! I was Sarah Oliver from Reading.
If anyone knows of her whereabouts, I would love to get in touch with her again.
Cheers.
Guest: robin
City, Country: Norwich, Norfolk
Date & Comments: May 15, 2003
Brethren are distinguishable only because its ex members make it so. By defining yourself as an ex brethren, or not; or by being 'in' or being 'out', you give the group a status it does not deserve. The brethren are deeply misguided people - not evil or wicked. Their actions cause a lot of pain, but this can heal with time if allowed to. Distinguish yourself by your likes and dislikes - your opinions. You are a member of this world just as a member of the brethren is. By continuing to anylise and debate brethren ideas and actions you constantly reinforce and give importance to their presence in your life and this world. As long as you continue to react you continue to give them life. Talk of your pain and personal grievances but do not waste your time by discussing their illogical way of life - thus giving them undeserved importance. They believe they are an elite - do not make them so.
Guest: George Mair
Guest E-mail: georgemair@one tel.net.uk
City, Country: Maidenhead UK
Date & Comments: May 15, 2003
Guest: natasha folks
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: england
Date & Comments: May 16, 2003
hi.. i was an ex brethren.. i have now recovered from the disastrous time i had in the sect! it was awful in there... you dnt realise or see it until u actually are set free from it... anyone who is part of brethren and has access to the net... then GET OUT straight away... dnt do it to urself! its crazy crazy crazy!! eerrrrr.... SAVE URSELF AND BE FREE LIKE MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! thx... thats all i got to say to all of u/...
Guest: Olivier B. DELOUIS chairman of the French Association AViFE
Guest E-mail: avife@voila.fr
City, Country: Saint-Etienne, France
Date & Comments: May 16, 2003
with ex-Brethrens, educators, lawyers, and so a french association is born to help victims of the Plymouth Brethren n°4 ("Tayloristes" ou "Purs"):
Association Nationale AViFE
(aide aux victimes des Frères Exclusifs)
181 D, rue des Alliés
F-42000 Saint Etienne (France)
Phone (from France) 06 23 49 93 91
Phone (international) 00 33 6 23 49 93 91
site web: avife.site.voila.fr
frères exclusifs infos: fei.site.voila.fr
friendly yours
Olivier B. Delouis
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: SparklePunk@aol.com
City, Country: U.S.A.
Date & Comments: May 16, 2003
Hi I'm actually very close with a Plymouth Brethren and would love to be able to be with the rest of my life. The problem is we both don't know how to 'get around' the fact he's in the church and I'm not. What do others do when a situation like this occurs?? I'm willing to "join" (for lack of a better word) the church if that's what it takes to be with him...but I dont know if that's an acceptable option, or if so how do I go about doing so? please ANY feed back or sugestions anyone has to offer would be incredibly appreciated.. thank you very much
Guest: John Kennard
Guest E-mail: centralw@tpg.com.au
City, Country: Bathurst Australia
Date & Comments: May 17, 2003
New email address.
Guest: George Mair
Guest E-mail: georgemair@onetel.net.uk
Date & Comments: May 17, 2003
Left home sometime around 1960. Agnostic or athiest now, I'm not sure of the difference, and don't really much care. I must be really evil, because not only do I vote in every election, I have stood for public office. I was a County Councillor on Berkshire County Council and a Councillor on The Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead, and chairman of several committees during my time there.
May I contribute to previous comments? The Berlin Wall came down because real people on both sides wanted it to come down. I'm not so optimistic about the theories put forward by some.
Although I had been out since the early '60's, my late brother Willie told me that the husband of my late sister was one of the brothren who was in the infamous Aberdeen house at the time of the, shall we say, "uncovering". I don't know any more than that. I have one sister who is still in, or was at least the last time I heard, over a decade ago. My other brother Jim is in Vancouver, but I haven't heard from him this century.
Having read the guestbook from beginning to end (not pausing too long at the lengthy sermons) the only names of contributors I recognise are Grugeon (weren't they a family of boys primarily, engaged in the laundry business in Peterhead UK?) Alistair Deayton (Paisley UK) and the Amor family in London. I don't quite understand how the latter figured in my (then young) life, but it is certainly a family name I distinctly recall. My aunt Margaret (married name Short) could be the only connection. She and her husband Neil lived in Eltham and then, in 1952 were near Crouch End (London), probably Hornsey Hill. I visited them that year when still a spotted callow youth of 11.
Guest: Interested
Date & Comments: May 17, 2003
George Mair raises a good point in his analogy of the Berlin Wall.
However I wonder how many Brethren people, exEb contributors actually know, hear from or observe?
Have you heard a member ask an employee on an out of town job not to let anyone know he's EB, with "I know we're weird but we don't have to let everyone know"
Have you heard a young person totally rubbish the system and say that all the younger generation will be the future adults and things will be different then?
Have you had text messages from a young EB on a cellphone and be told that they've all got them?
Have you seen them in the phone shop looking at cellphones while their mates are the scouts out at the entraceway to the shopping plaza?
Have you said hello to them in a music shop when they are listening to music through headsets, looking through racks of CD's and purchasing something in the shop?
What will BDH do when he comes to grips with the fact that the young ones are pushing the boundaries so that they can enjoy a normal life. Will he change the rules to allow cellphones or will there be a mass "shut up" of the younger generation?
Guest: anonymous
City, Country: Melbourne Australia
Date & Comments: May 18, 2003
In answer to recent correspondence on this site:
To maintain "principles in your life" and to be "separate to the world" does not include violating the family. There are many many God fearing people who walk (not talk) a very faithful life in accordance to the word of God, and are not, nor ever have been members of the Exclusive Brethren, and at the same time have maintained a loving unconditional bond with all their family members.
Guest: Cedric Ghinn
Guest E-mail: ghinnsigns@aol.com
City, Country: London England
Date & Comments: May 18, 2003
No comment.
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: May 18, 2003
It is impossible for "self"to be seperate from the world. But you could lie to yourself and other like minded people. We need salvation from "self", not salvation of the "self".Only Christ is seperate from the world, and those who know Christ Jesus as their true identity, instead of "self".A brilliant and well known author[published over millions of books, by the surname Harding] explained this state.Only his closest friends knew he was Ex P.Brethren.
Guest: Phil Mortimer
Guest E-mail: philmortimer1@aol.com
City, Country: Formerly Worthing/Brighton, England, now in France
Date & Comments: May 19, 2003
Fascinated by "Interested"'s comments; that is precisely (all right, cellphones weren't around) what my mates and I were doing thirty years ago!!
Guest: Andrew Tchappat
City, Country: Tasmania
Date & Comments: May 19, 2003
Hi there,
I just noticed an entry from Katrina Cooper in QLD would love to hear from you Trina it has been years and I left the week after you. love to email so if you could put that in it would be great or feel free to email me atchappa@bigpond.net.au
Cheers
Andy
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
Date & Comments: May 20, 2003
Here is a happier story about the EB "Review" policy:
A couple were contacted by their family and told they could come and visit his father who is ageing fast. As they had to travel a very long way, they were given lunch - separately of course. Imagine the family's consternation then when they found that the old man had wandered into the room and was quite happily chatting to his son and daughter-in-law whilst sharing a bowl of pudding with them. Age and senility obviously has its advantages in that setup.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: May 20, 2003
Have heard that Beady H laid down the law according to himself last Saturday. Apparently it was read out at every meeting @ the world and everyone was told to say "Amen". Contained things like; There will be no mobile phones; There will be no C.D's or C.D. players etc. Obviously aimed at bringing the kids into line. Just wondering if anybody heard the same.
Ciao.
Guest: Jill Mytton
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Beckenham, UK
Date & Comments: May 20, 2003
Following the screenings of the Everyman programme, a large number of people emailed me or wrote letters to me. Unfortunately I am currently overwhelmed with work at the university and I have therefore been unable to reply to all of you.
But I will! You may however, have to wait a while longer as the university work now hots up even more with the summer assessments.
Can I also say that the BBC will only transmit the Everyman programme again IF they get enough people asking for it! So please ask.
Jill
Guest: Margaret Wilson
Guest E-mail: margaret.wilson50@btinternet.com
City, Country: Tunbridge Wells, England
Date & Comments: May 20, 2003
If anyone has a copy of Everyman suited to North America, could you please get in touch. Tel 01892-522228. Thanks
Guest: Laughing Observer
Guest E-mail: beady-aitch@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Worcestershire
Date & Comments: May 21, 2003
"I have several reports that BDH is demanding tighter discipline" says Dick in Whats New
Well I am glad to see that that the modern Peeb kids are starting to stand up for themselves and get the same rollickings for the same things as we did 30 years ago. Keep at it kids and see if you can get yourself slung out. You won't regret it. Keep on smoking, drinking, playing CD's and buying cell phones. Best of all just get out of it.
Best wishes
Guest: Katrina McIntosh (nee Cooper)
Guest E-mail: trinapops@hotmail.com
City, Country: Mackay, Queensland AUSTRALIA
Date & Comments: May 22, 2003
Just updating since my last entry with my new email address. Hoping to hear from those I know.
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: May 22, 2003
Laughing obsever you may mean well, but forget the smoking drinking CD bit. I am continually amazed by that question that continually comes to mind. Is there, and has there ever been any spiritual life amongst P.B.s both in and out? Do they really know Jesus, except as a concept in their minds and religious thoughts? Perhaps just a regurgitation, of others undigested concepts with an added dash of their own? Will the Real Man in Christ please stand up, somewhere please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guest: Andrea Howden
Guest E-mail: drea.den@orange.net
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 22, 2003
Hi Gerard, re your email May 1 - it is just too true! I've printed a copy off, the kids are laughing over it!! You could hear a pin drop if one of the major money-spending Big-wigs walked into a meeting room, but they wouldn't have noticed Jesus, he was too poor! Hope you are all ok, enjoy your hol. Andrea.
Guest: Clara Nadle
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: May 22, 2003
I was doing research on the net for school inspections and came across Brethren schools listed. I have never in my life heard of something so bizarre??!! I am a christian women and live freely, fairly, honestly and with passion. What sad, ignorant people to guide their children into such a cult like lifestyle. Oh and women have to wear a "token" to show their subservience...Hello it is 2003 surely? In every corner of the world women are moving forward. Be fair to your girls- let them live in a Christian world that is fair and free. I wish all you ex-es all the best in finding a new peaceful and loving life. God bless.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 23, 2003
This is a request for up to date information on the times of the Sunday meetings of the Brethren in the U.K. If any reader can help I would be most grateful. Thank You, All good wishes.
Guest: F Klopper
Guest E-mail: grootpiel@ananzi.za
Date & Comments: May 23, 2003
I was very young and it was nearly 40 years ago that I stopped going to EB meetings. In the meantime new rules have emerged accompanied by changes in their dogma and/or beliefs to accommodate new technology and scientific knowledge. I wondered if any site visitors could answer any of the following questions:
FK
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: sheilamac1@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 23, 2003
To the person from 23rd May asking the times of UK meetings. I know they definately still start at 6am on a Sunday and I expect they trail on throughout the day as they always did. However I can't help with the exact times of readings and preachings, but they were usually 9am and 12noon. That has not changed to my knowledge. But to those of you reading this do you remember the crazy notion that THE LORD arrived at each assembly for the breaking of bread, he started of course in Australia, where else! He mysteriously travelled around the world arriving just at 6am at the right moment in each place and we all sat there supposedly just knowing He had arrived and we could begin. Then he left the UK around 6pm and Sunday was over, bound across the Atlantic for USA except that time differences would have ment he would have to be there before he had left here, and what He did in winter when we have an hour time change I don't know, but being God of course he sorted it all out correctly, going via Africa and not forgettng the rest of Europe, and everywhere else in the world at the same time.
I wonder if he is still such a busy God on a Sunday or if the reduced numbers and the exodus from Africa means the seventh day can be a little more restful now. We still laugh at that, because if and when our family who are still in do contact us on a Sunday it is always just after 6pm and as soon as the phone rings we say to each other, God's left for America!!
Guest: Timekeeper
Guest E-mail: sunday-timetable@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Midlands
Date & Comments: May 23, 2003
Sunday Meeting times for name Suppressed of UK
Very,Very early.
Early
Later
Why? Do you fancy going to them.
All equals a waste of a Sunday.
This year I celebrate 29 years out of it. Hurrah.
Guest: Grant Hoyle
Guest E-mail: ghoyle@wxc.net.nz
City, Country: Tirau New Zealand
Date & Comments: May 24, 2003
John Benion hi there. Good to see a note on site re contact and your sisters Rosemary Cecily and Barbara. I remember when you used to work for my Dad "Snow" or Hubert Hoyle. 5 years ago I pushed biked the length of England Scotland Wales and Ireland and was wanting to catch up with you while over there. I am Snow's son and are now in my 40's. Yes my contact/apology/re-entry negotiation is due next week after years of none from the EBs. Will post on site re the revised rules after my de-brief.
Guest: Mary
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 24, 2003
Have you ever had the experience of not knowing whether you were laughing or crying? I was reading sheilamac's entry on 23 May and the tears were streaming down my face. It is at the same time hilariously funny and deeply sad. I suppose the tears were just sheer emotion.
Guest: Stan Field
Guest E-mail: stanfield41@hotmail.com
City, Country: Perth Aust
Date & Comments: May 24, 2003
to suppressed by request
(sheilamacl)
just want to set the record straight
the Lord starts off in New Zealand at 6am Sunday FIRST !!! then heads over to east Aust 3hrs or 2hrs later depending on daylight saving then its off to Western Aust some 2 or 3hrs later again depending on the daylight saving situation so I suppose NZ is one step ahead so to speak.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: May 24, 2003
If Dick's sources are accurate, the "what's new" states BDH is threatening to cut off 3 day meetings for wearing bleached Denim, digital camera's and cut hair. This indicates a state of delusions of grandeur, as the edicts become more bizzare. Anybody going back under the impression the rules have changed had better think again. Clearly the man is delusional and slipping into paranoia. I am reminded of the "wannabe" leader in Regina years ago who demanded the brethren sit forward on their seats- just to see if they were "obedient"
And they say they are carrying on the "recovery"? Really!
Guest: Al
Guest E-mail: beady-aitch@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Worcs
Date & Comments: May 25, 2003
More gems from the PBs. "Among the infractions - cut or tinted hair, digital cameras and wearing washed (bleached?) denim".
Digital cameras. Really useful tools without a PC aren't they? Have they lost they old long standing fixation with "micro" skirts? That used to be the gripe 30 years ago. Still got their denim hangup I see.
Cancel 3 day meetings? If the kids can play up a bit more they might cancel all meetings for the foreseeable future. Now that would be a result.
Go for it kids, the summer is almost here.
Guest: Toad
Guest E-mail: toadhall@fastmail.fm
Date & Comments: May 25, 2003
The EBs have said many times that they don't have any rules. Just as they don't have a leader. So how can they generate a papal encyclical?
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments:
To the man whose wife is suffering from depression. Take the advice of the others who have written to you about visiting the doctor and legal action. Depression damages the body but it can be healed. Complimentary medicine can also help. Something will work but it may take some time to find out what.
Please don't let them spoil any more of your life - you only get one go at it after all. Also read Tony Robbins - Awaken the Giant Within (it's not religious). And as for Martyn Ricketts - this is not the time and it's not the place.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: sheilamac1@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 26, 2003
To Stan Field,
I am so glad you and others remember this, it is so bizarre that sometimes I used to wonder if I had remembered it correctly. Well I had sort of just got the geography mixed up!
My apologies! I forgot all about New Zealand, somehow, I can't remember why, but the UK brethren appeared to think at one stage that THE LORD did started his tour of the morning meetings in Australia. I can actually remember this very point being discussed, but like many other things of course they had got it ever so slightly wrong.
Also my apologies to the whole of New Zealand. Sorry but we did not hear much about New Zealand as Australia was always so prominent. The main thing really for the UK EB's was that God had been with the world leader of the time just checking that all was right with the assembly, before getting to them and when He arrived on the dot and always on time they knew they were OK, still in fellowship with the one and only right position?? Their cloud in heaven was still safe.
Guest: Bill, Perth
Date & Comments: May 25, 2003
Re "the e-leaked vessel threatened in his recent letter to punish his followers by suspending three day meetings if his rules are not observed"
Brucie has threatened to withdraw this BENEFIT? Withdrawing 3 day meetings or for that matter any would do you all a favour.
All you young EB members unfortunate to have been born into this mob - Go for it!!!! Just make contact with those that can assist you leave and get up and go! Don't bother with their explanations, pleading etc. Take it from me it is a load of nonsense. For every one EB that has left and failed there are at least twenty that have more than made it. You have nothing to fear.
Let the revolution begin! Leave en masse!
Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.ent
City, Country: Portland, CT USA
Date & Comments: May 26, 2003
Greetings,
It is very interesting but sad to be reminded that the Lord's Supper must be at 6:00 am. The reason for that was JTJr was leaving Sydney early one Sunday morning heading home to NYC. Obviously he was flying east over the pacific heading for NYC. But the Lord was "flying" west. So it must be that JTJr left the Lord and went in a totally different direction.
Guest: Darren Hughes
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Formerly Calne Wiltshire
Date & Comments: May 27, 2003
Why hasn't the person writing the abusive emails (i.e. the one in the losers section etc.) have the courage of their convictions and put their name to them ?
D211 !
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: May 28, 2003
I'm not at all surprised many PB's are afflicted with depression. These poor souls are in an untenable position, with no one to turn to or discuss any fears or concerns they might have. They must maintain appearences at all costs- or risk drawing attention to themselves- and face the consequences of banishment, the loss of employment, their whole social structure, family and friends- no relationship- even that of spouse, is safe.
If they see a close friend being "made an example of" they cannot raise their voice- or they will suffer the same fate. Even if it happens to be immediate family- a son, daughter, father, mother, they must turn their back on them. Indeed the heirarchy watches them closely for any sign of flinching,or sympathy, and if evidenced- they are ostracised too.
If they dare discuss their fears with even their closest family, they risk being turned in by them under the guise of "faithfulness" This creates enormous mental pressure, with no place to turn. I'm surprised more of them just don't crack. Scripture says "why do you turn again to bondage, after being freed"?
Guest: Martyn Ricketts
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
Date & Comments: May 28, 2003
I would like to comment on the recent entry which objects to the posting I made recently on forgiveness.
The person gives some good medical advice but suggests that my entry was not the time or place.
Well, I was only making comments from the Great Physician, the Lord Jesus Christ. There is always a time to hear His words as they bring life, liberty and freedom which many long for in their lives.
As the person who objected to my entry says about our lives “you only get one go at it after all”
So why not bring all to Him who will carry our burdens if we let Him.
If we reject the words of Jesus, we reject the One who sent Him and therefore end up rejecting God.
The choice is yours.
Guest: Oliver Bedford
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Sydney, Australia (ex UK)
Date & Comments: May 29, 2003
The EBs have a new box office hit, the movie "BRUCE ALMIGHTY", starring Jim Carrey (who as Bruce plays God for a day) and Jennifer Anniston. Of couse, one does have to complain about the misrepresentation of Bruce, who as we know plays his role for the long term, not just for one day.
This might even make an interesting new "Correspondence" item, with reactions to the movie, its place in the recovery and maintenance of the truth, and so on.
Cheers..... Oliver
Guest: Sarah Rowlands
Guest E-mail: rowlie76@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: May 30, 2003
All these comments as to the Lord being at the Lord's Supper in New Zealand and then flying west to America etc; they are quite humerous!
I am no holy ch'moly but maybe its worth remembering that God is SO unique and powerful ,,,,,, he is able to be in more than one place at any one time.
Guest: Jon Stephens
Guest E-mail: js@hotmail.com
City, Country: Bristol
Date & Comments: May 30, 2003
I think the point that 'suppressed' was trying to make to Martyn Ricketts is that it was not the time and the place to be 'preaching' rather than not the time and the place to know the lord.