This page contains entries made in April 2003.
These names and addresses are posted to enable people to contact friends and loved ones. Please do not exploit this information for commercial purposes.
Guest: Tamara Corbin
Guest E-mail: TamaraCorbin@spherion.com
City, Country: Ft. Lauderdale, FL (originally Barbados)
Date & Comments: April 1, 2003
I would be happy to chat with anyone who has recently left the Exclusive Brethren and feels somewhat lost!
Regards,
Tammy
Guest: John
Guest E-mail: john314159267@yahoo.co.uk
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: April 1, 2003
From memory, JND's teaching on dispensations is that the Jews will return to the Israel/Palestine area in the Millenium, not before it.
Also, as far as I can tell, JND's paper on separation (guestbook comments on 2 Tim 2:21) was written well before his translation of the New Testament, which I believe was first into French, though I have not been able to confirm this.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Melbourne Australia
Date & Comments: April 2, 2003
J N Darby translated the entire bible in his life history, what a feat! Any-one else can do that to-day (even with all our technology) ??? I can't see that....so stop knocking him.
Guest: heidi
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: South Africa
Date & Comments: April 2, 2003
A few weeks ago I was looking for AIDEN & KIM MORREN - who are part of the Exclusive Brethren - who had moved to England.
I HAVE FOUND THEM - they are well and sound fantastic!
Thanks to all the people who responded to my call for help. I really appreciate your time and effort taken to help me.
Kind regards
HEIDI
Guest: Andrea Howden
Guest E-mail: drea.den@orange.net
City, Country: U.K.
Date & Comments: April 2, 2003
Hi Jos, I used to write to you many moons ago, before you were booted out! I lived in Bromley, got married, had 5 children and then we were all booted out, am now divorced and have moved to Somerset. I wrote to your sister Florence for years but she wasn't half so lively as you. E-mail me back, it would be lovely to hear from you. I've often wondered how you were. My married name was Alexander, but I went back to Howden after the divorce. Andrea.
Guest: Dr D. Brian Cowell
Guest E-mail: Cowell SCI@aol.com
City, Country: Bradford, UK
Date & Comments: April 2, 2003
I am the younger son of the late G.R. Cowell. Many exclusives know my sad history about my former wife leaving me and taking Monica, my daughter with her. I got Monica back through court action and Marjorie was killed in a car accident in 1965. I married Margaret in 1970 and we have had a very happy life. If anyone remembers me and would like to contact me either directly or through my e-mail address, I would be glad to hear from them. Meanwhile, the Lord has richly bless Margaret and I during our 32 years of marriage. I am now nearly 76, and praise the Lord, in good health. My Christian work involves the support of a charity for the translation of the Bible into Mongolian, and also I give lectures on the fallacy of the evolution theory.
Guest: Elaine Hanley
Guest E-mail: bobedhan@localnet.com
City, Country: Blooming Glen (Bucks Co) PA
Date & Comments: April 3, 2003
Greetings:
Hi, Gil! Read your entry 2/23/03. When we had been down to SW Phila to Intl airport, on occasion drop by at my cousins to leave a gospel tract. It seems Rob Fry must have moved. We need to pray for SALVATION f/those 'left behind' in the TBs. They are pathetically deceived. Just as Stephen Rodgers has said "that God spoke MENE, MENE, TEKAL, UPHARSIN against it" but they are not able to 'read the handwriting on the wall'. Pmclarke has referred to their desperate LOST state on this site several times, recently 3/26/03. A 'real eye opener' is What's New, January 2, 2003, Detroit Mtgs. 7 September 2002. There is no mention of God, Christ, Bible verses read, etc. Keep praying for them.
Guest: Iain Gibb
Guest E-mail: Iain.Gibb@campbell-lee.co.uk
City, Country: Scotland, UK
Date & Comments: April 3, 2003
There are countless reasons for calling into question the validity of the
whole EB position. This website gives a few thousand. God alone knows
how many more thousand stories could be told.
But just in case there are any EBs reading this, I will draw your attention again to just two which have already appeared on this website but which you may have missed.
Bro. William on 26 March drew attention to the difference in the translations of 2 Timothy 2 between JND's French translation and his English translation. Whatever reasons JND had for changing his mind on the translation of the text between the two, or using a different text for translation, is his matter. Of course, since it is known that JND's French translation preceded the English one, and the English one was not complete when he died, if someone else took upon himself the right to make an amendment to JND's original, that would be in EB eyes a sin against the Holy Spirit. I don't think for a moment he expected either translation to be so misused. For the record, I checked up an old French JND translation I have in the house (I think from 1920s) and compared to an English JND translation, and I confirm what Bro. William said - they are indeed different. Does that not make you think your edifice is built on something very shaky?
Second, I thought nothing about the EBs could shock me, but the quotation from BDH which Dick has placed at front of "Aberdeen - Alan Ker's account" - where he says "beloved J.H.S., the Word becoming flesh, dwelling among us" shook me. I did not believe I would ever read such heresy even from EBs. Using a scripture which refers so clearly to the Eternal person and divinity of Christ and making it equivalent to any man puts the whole system outside of anything that can be truly called Christian at all.
I know EB actions have for many years been unchristian, but to see such a statement in black and white made my blood run cold.
I appeal to any EBs reading this, stop and think and read your Bible thoughtfully, prayerfully and submissively. Your system is heading fast towards apostasy when such statements can be made and left unchallenged.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: April 4, 2003
I think the thing that shocks us so much is the reality that the current group known as the PB's bears little or no resemblence to the group that was known by that name 50 years or more ago. Even then the seeds had been sewn for what it has become, but they still held the scriptures as their final authority, persons were only recieved on a confession of faith, and local elders governed the group. As the older ones have gone to be with the Lord, the younger generation, those who grew up and were accepted into fellowship as babies, who by their own admission do not claim any personal knowlege of the Lord as personal savior- relying instead on being" in the assembly", these poor souls have no biblical grounding- and are prey to the whim of whoever happens to be the leader of the day.
What we are witnessing is the rapid decline from a group of believers who took the bible as their final authority and guide into a total cult like state that is anti-christian in nature.
"By their fruits ye shall know them"
Guest: Laurie Twinam
Guest E-mail: Laurie@twinam.fsnet.co.uk
Date & Comments: April 05, 2003
It is very sad that we are once more witnessing these outbursts of antipathy towards J N Darby, to whom so many Christians alive today feel they owe so much. His Bible translation is sound and reliable, his writings full of valuable instruction (once you learn to cope with his style!) and his hymns are particularly uplifting and spiritual. To try to make him a scapegoat for all the troubles of the EBs is quite outrageous.
The root of most of those troubles can be traced to the 60s, 80 years after JND’s death.
Thank you Peter H for reminding us that ’Christ changes everything’. He can change the attitudes of each of us, and He Himself has given us a matchless lead in His endurance of suffering. We need to fix our eyes on Jesus, who for our sakes endured the cross, and to consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself. Those early Christians certainly suffered for their faith and were not ashamed of it, even if that meant being thrown to the lions.
In Matthew’s Gospel Jesus warned His disciples that if they called the master of the house Beelzebub (equivalent to the devil) how much more those of his household. I believe that is the nature of these current attacks on JND – and the Lord has warned us that they would come. But Jesus, the Master of the house, not JND, is the One we should fix our eyes upon
Many who read this website have a deep concern that young people leaving the Jims for all kinds of reasons should have a clear pointer to Jesus as the living Centre of all true Christianity, and should not be stumbled, confused or discouraged by the comments they read here. For that reason may we choose our words carefully and prayerfully.
--Laurie Twinam
Guest: Keith Aburrow
Guest E-mail: aburrow@clara.co.uk
City, Country: Southampton, UK
Date & Comments: April 4, 2003
I left in 1975 and still feel the damage. Is there any legal recourse for lives ruined by their "teachings" ? Would God mind one using it ? And does anyone know what contact they had (1991), maybe still have, high up in the UK government ?
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 5, 2003
I have no antipathy towards Mr. Darby, only compassion. Why is it, that the greatest sin amongst Brethren, is a sin against their elect Vessels, including Mr. Darby? I remember when I was a young man, not yet an adult, I was the only one to stand up against Mr Taylor out of a fellowship of over a thousand present, over Aberdeen. They switched the microphones off on me, and proclaimed my message was from the devil or Beelzebub, they then said "You kick the devil out while his pants are full". The Truth can only be received directly by the Spirit.
Guest: Hazel
City, Country: London
Date & Comments: April 5, 2003
Well the Bretheren have made their first appearance as characters in a drama progamme!!! Casualty (BBC1) have just had a story line about the peebs tonight. Does this mean that the hanky heads will now be seen wandering through the market in Eastenders or buying a (detatched) house in Emmerdale? Sorry for being flipant but it is amazing - maybe a lot of script writers were watching Everyman or have been told about it and are becomming curious about this group.
Love to you all.
Guest: Toad
Guest E-mail: toadhall@fastmail.fm
Date & Comments: April 5, 2003
Laurie Twinam elegantly illustrates a very important point regarding J N Darby. He decries any suggestion that Darby could be wrong. It is that very well embedded attitude in brethren that was exploited by the Taylors, Symington and the Hales boys. Brethren, like most humans, desire a human to revere - God is rather too "theoretical."
Of course, in my EB days, a budding JND would have been put down as "the mind of man in the things of God."
Thank you, Laurie, for the illustration!
Guest: Wayne Kerr
Guest E-mail: waynekerr@exbrethen.com
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: April 5, 2003
Never a dull moment on this site. We've hardly wrapped up the Darby battle (including the When Did The Brethren Go Wrong battle) and we're into an Alpha battle.
May I respectfully suggest that those leaving the peebs who want to maintain some form of religious activity concentrate on their Bible and don't worry about what mere mortal men have added in the name of 'teaching' - surely that's one lesson we've all learned?
And if we're to argue over translations, you could try the respected King James Authorised Version - to date I haven't heard it criticised on this site (although I'm sure I will now), or even a Good News version if you're not into 16th century English (although that ones's criticised in my ex-peeb family as 'lacking reverence' for that very reason).
Throw away your pink, green and yellow books and your Alpha courses and if your Bible's not enough for you and you feel the need to keep reading, try Stephen King or Mary Higgins Clarke. I understand they're good reads and probably not interested in twisting your religious beliefs to their own points of view!
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 5, 2003
Mr. Darby's misleading inclusion {in seperating HIMSELF from them) into 2Tim2v21, became the basis for his famous pamphlet, "Seperation from evil-God's Principle of Unity". Was this the grounds of their constant divisions? Was this addition to scripture, to bring upon them the plagues of the last chapter of God's word eschatologically speaking? Why did their world famous Bible scholar, G.V.Wigram [the most qualified to translate the Bible] preach against the Rapture? [Rowdon 1967:82] Why did Darby preach a visible unity of the Spirit, when scripture teaches it is Spiritual: "unity of the spirit"? Why did A.N.Groves, the Bristol Brethren and many other scholars reject in detail Darby's eschatology and ecclesiology? Is not this false addition, the platform for these elect vessels to rule from?
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: April 5, 2003
An interesting discussion to be sure, but one scripture comes to mind "the spirit quickens but the letter kills" We can pick apart scripture, verse by verse, and come up with all sorts of opinions,and build a whole theology out of it. We can spend interminable hours debating points of view and doctrine, but in the end- what has been learned, or accomplished for that matter? I like to think about the "essense" of Christianity- that which drew people to Christ- was it doctrine- or theology? I think not- it was His compassion, His understanding, His feelings, the way He identified with people. Indeed our Lord said he hadn't come for the rightious, it was sinners He came to save. Those were the people who came to Him- and they came away with their hearts on fire. The gospels tell us Jesus said- go and do thou likewise.
That is the "essence" of Christianity.
Guest: Martyn Ricketts
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
Date & Comments: April 06, 2003
With reference to Mr Rogers and Mr Toads entries recently regarding JND and dispensationalism and the return of the Jews to Palestine, may I suggest that they and anyone else interested visit www.operation-exodus.org
This is a Christian organisation called Ebenezer Emergency Fund
I quote from the site:
In 1974 God showed Steve Lightle in a vision that it was His plan for the Jews to return to Israel from Russia, as prophesied in Jeremiah 16:14-16
Since 1991 Ebenezer Emergency Fund has assisted over 96,000 Jews to return safely to Israel from the former Soviet Union by ship and plane. They are being helped by dedicated teams of Christians from around the world, who are fulfilling prophetic scriptures calling the Gentiles to carry the sons and daughters of Zion back to their land”
This is an organisation that has seen the hand of the Lord in the return of God’s ancient people from parts of Russia to Palestine in recent years. Its gives some excellent teaching on the return of the Jews to Israel and JN Darby is not even mentioned! Well worth a visit.
The site gives many references from scripture to the return of the Jews who have been scattered through out the world to Palestine.
Perhaps for once JN Darby did get it right?!!......
Interestingly the Watch Tower movement better known as the Jehovah’s Witness teach that God has finished with Israel and is now only dealing through them.
I wonder if these are the same “satanic forces” that are deceiving the JW’s that Mr Rogers mentioned and suggests that deceived JND?
I’m sorry Mr Rogers and Mr Toad, we will have to agree to disagree regarding your beliefs against dispensationalism!
Any other visitors agree?
Regards to all visitor.
Martyn Ricketts
Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: pjfrench@celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Date & Comments: April 6, 2003
Well, here we go again ... :-)
I really hope that not many who are a little unsettled about the peebs read the 'gopsels according to ...' and here insert the peeb apologists.
At times this looks like a Peeb Defence Site - PDS, without the public sponsorship.
It was OK until JTJnr, Symington, the Hales Clan and so on...
If anyone is really serious, they will take a lot of what is said with a grain of salt, and approach the issues/topics with an open mind - go read philosophy, do a liberal degree as that will help if you feel restricted ... BUT evaluate all with an open mind. DON'T close your minds or let the crazy peeb guilt come back, or you may as well go back as well.
Apporach everything from a viewpoint other than trying to support peebism.
For example, read what non-peebs say about Darby [there is something to start with on this site] and pause to enquire from an Open Brethren member or do you regard them as 'evil'?
Then look at the definition of a cult, and see what ther is about the peebs that fits, and then what has fitted since Darby started it.
A lot don't agree with me, and some have called me evil, and of the devil - the defence has been really strong which on its own is very interesting - such strong defence ... I'll let you decide and debate as I have far more interesting and fulfilling things to do.
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 6, 2003
Mr. Darby's Heart was once on fire for Christ, the glorious advent of that love, proclaimed the wonderful glad-tidings, riding on horseback into the long hours of the day. His body then was mere fuel, bursting forth with the love of God, for the poorest of Ireland's slum dwellers. But soon, this magnificent love and grace, that swept through the gloom and alcohol of Ireland's poor, like the morning Sun, was eclipsed by the aristocracy of the day. They adorned Darby with the highest accolades, which soon began to set the drums to another beat, that of departure. The glory of God began to leave the house, as of old.
Guest: Adrian Sloan
Guest E-mail: Carolandadrian@sloan52.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Bristol, UK
Date & Comments: April 6, 2003
I watched the Everyman video yesterday. My main feeling was a slight sense of disappointment, in that none of the 4 sets of people said anything at all about any Christian faith. Perhaps they still feel that to be outside the EBs is to cease to be Christians at all. As someone who left at Aberdeen, that was certainly not true of us. There does seem to be a slight shift of attitude in that they have apparently reviewed the most obviously perverse actions, but the attitude does still seem to be that they are the only ones who are right. Reviews of actions do not seem to include Aberdeen! I can only sympathise with any young people within the EBs who have effectively been brought up to fear the world outside. I have a cousin, Jennifer Bance, whose birthday it is today, with whom I have no contact at all since 1970. Her children would know nothing else.
Guest: anonymous
City, Country: Melbourne Australia
Date & Comments: April 7, 2003
THE ONE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION:
That no-one wants to or maybe can answer is:
WHY, ARE THE CURRENT EXCLUSIVE BRETHREN MEMBERS NOW ADMITTING TO PREVIOUS EXCLUSIVE BRETHREN MEMBERS THAT:
"WE WERE WRONG THEN AND WE ARE SORRY"
When as a group of religious people the Exclusive Brethren still hold that:
"they" are the chosen ones, or as they say, the elect ones who are "THE POSITION' here on earth, yet now apologising for "BEING WRONG"!!!
Please someone explain how such a 'elect' lot of chosen people be "so wrong"???
Guest: Anthony Paul
Guest E-mail: whistler6669@hotmail.com (My birthday is the 6th of the 6th 1963 hence the 666)
City, Country: Sydney Australia (Oatlands)
Date & Comments: April 7, 2003
Visited site a while back and havent been back soory. Been busy email address above so if anyone would like to contact me or talk i also use msn messenger and I would like to find out about recent issues so if u feel u could help me catch up then chat to me. THANKYOU
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw .ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: April 7, 2003
The question about why brethren are "apologising" but still claiming to be "right" is explained by the "positionally right theory" Very simply, they believe that because they are the "assembly" no matter what happens, they are always in the "right position". This allows them to make changes from time to time or even radically change the rules [the "spirit isn't stressing that right now"] Whoever happens to be the leader can pretty much change the rules at the slightest whim, and watch everybody jump-it's a power thing.
But, the key factor is while they can change the rules anytime they want, they still maintain that they are in the "right position" and therefore they are always right, and we are always wrong. So "apologies" are always in that context- "we" are right and "you" are wrong, but we may have made some mistakes,and therefore you can come back now. [and we won't or don't have to accept responsibility for all the carnage and mental stress we caused] Therefore this "positionally right theory" allows them to carry on with their claims of being the "assembly" instead of admitting the whole thing got off track years ago as they abandoned both the gospel and the final authority of scripture, instead substituting the "current voice of the spirit"- whatever the current leader happened to say- without having to back it up with scripture- or even abandoning scripture altogether. There is a name for this- you call it heresy
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Perth Australia
Date & Comments: April 7, 2003
Wayne Kerr huh? What an unfortunate name! At least your parents had a sense of humour!
Eccles I Astes
Guest: Toad
Guest E-mail: toadhall@fastmail.fm
Date & Comments: April 8, 2003
Why should the EBs rush to say "Sorry"? It took the pope in Rome about 500 years to forgive Galileo for the crime of suggesting that the universe didn't revolve around Rome.
As to the EBs' "one position," it would be easier to understand if they had some missionaries!
Guest: Candace Merriweather
Guest E-mail: cwhat@earthlink.net
Date & Comments: April 08, 2003
In response to pmclarke. April 7, 2003
Agreed. Further, I consider the new dictated "reviews and apologies" abuse of both sides. Unsettling for all.
Peebs younger than the perpetrators seem to be charged with the task of apologizing. They were not responsible.
ExPeebs are faced with opening of old wounds and additional emotional confusion.
In my opinion, the Taylorite Exclusive Brethren SYSTEM is guilty of crimes against humanity.
No systematic apology can ever re-tie the years, sometimes decades of broken family bonds.
The "system" must be exposed and, hopefully, obliterated.
Guest: Peter
Guest E-mail: peter10@btclick.com
City, Country: Uk
Date & Comments: April 8, 2003
JT Jnr said, around 1969/70 that as a member of "the Assembly" your position is "that even when you're wrong you're right".
Peter Clarke, did you never listen to the Man of God?!!! What could be simpler?!
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 8, 2003
I am amazed no one has replied to Wayne Kerr's comment, about the King James Bible. King James was illegitimate, and a sodomite that loved young boys, and practised bestiality. He odered the King James version, as he wanted his name on the front cover of the Bible [Darby followed this trend]. King James believed in the "Divine Right of the Kings", to be good or evil. One was a blessing from God, the other a punishment, let no man interfere. The marginal notes of the Geneva Bible withstood this proposition, so it had to GO, on the punishment of death. James Bacon became it's editor [the leading member of Rosicrucians a secret mystical sect]. A masterpeice of English, some claim Bacon was the real author of Shakespeare, another version followed with I think 38,000 odd changes. Need I say anymore?
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 8, 2003
Mr. Toad is correct, so is Peter French. There is only ONE lEADER, the Man Jesus, all others are frauds. Dispensationalism was a Doctrine FIRST INVENTED by Jesuits, to protect the Papacy. Jesuit Ribera was the first, as the Catholic church was losing millions to Protestantism, over the Pope being the anti-christ of the Book of Revelations. Ribera placed the anti-christ at the end of this age period. Spanish Jesuit Emmanuel Lacunza, adopting the jewish name fraudulency: Ben Ezra [a converted jew], published his book "The Coming of the Messiah in great Glory and Majesty". In this book he postulates a secret rapture of the church [Roman Catholic], and then the reign of the Anti-Christ for three and half years. This circulated in England in 1812. Mr.Darby's friend Edward Irving translated this book into English. Mystery of Dispensationalism solved.
Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, CT USA
Date & Comments: April 8, 2003
Greetings All,
A good book to read, as well as your Bible, is the book by Rick Warren, "The Purpose Driven Life." Answer the question, "Why on earth are we (you, me) here?" I suggest to you that is more important than why JND WAS here.
Only by Grace,
Victor
Guest: Elizabeth Bunting
Guest E-mail: dbunting@shaw.ca
City, Country: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: April 9, 2003
To Candace Merriweather and Stephen Rodgers
The so-called apologies are without validity. An apology has to take place after a "Conviction" of sin which is the work of the Holy Spirit after which a "Repentance" is to take place.
After reading your messages and the messages of the other recipients of "apologies" so-called (in Brethren parlance), I do not perceive a conviction of wrong-doing nor a repentance. They still perceive themselves as being "right" because of having their name on the roll-book of the "Assembly." If a conviction and repentance had taken place, then a complete reconciliation would have taken place between themselves and the Living God which would have made a reconciliation between the brethren and sisters from whom they had withdrawn, including Sister Candace and Brother Stephen.
When we were saved, is not that what happened?? We are to depart from evil and not keep perpetuating the same evil that caused us to depart from the Living God??
Only by Grace,
Elizabeth Bunting
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Newcastle
Date & Comments: April 9, 2003
Being brought up in the Plymouth Brethern was an experience with which I still have to come to terms, or maybe I never will. I travelled 12,000 miles from home to start a new life and have done so very successfully - however, the problems associated with my appalling childhood have merely been buried by a very happy adulthood, and maybe it is better to leave the past undisturbed. I happily attend the highest of high Anglican church services, and believe I am doing what I was put on earth to do - to appreciate creation, to be non-judgemental, and to help others who need a hand along the way. I have a wonderful family and we love each other unconditionally. The misery caused to family by the teachings and practices of the EB is untold. The thing I find hardest to cope with is seeing (my husband, happily from another, freer culture) says it is uncanny how I can spot EB. I feel so sad for them, and hope that, like me, they can find freedom and happiness - I refuse to believe women are happy in this repressed patriarchical cult. Sisters, all you need is a bit of courage, and the will to reinvent yourself. Life is wonderful!
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: April 9, 2003
The concept that "when you're wrong you're right" is correct- in the context of admitting you're wrong. Sincere repentance and an attempt to make things right is always right. Yes, I've listened to JTjr, and he certainly had charisma. Unfortionately- that is a trait that tends to draw attention to oneself, not Christ. It is however a common feature of cults, very charismatic leadership that draws a following.
Guest: Thomas Tank
Date & Comments: April 9, 2003
So Wayne Kerr, no sooner have you predicted that the King James Authorised version will be criticised on this site than that very thing occurs. Profound and prophetic words indeed!
I too can sympathise with your unfortunate name - I myself was the butt of many a cruel joke as a youth.
Guest: Robert & Alison Daisley
Guest E-mail: gda@eurobell.co.uk
City, Country: Horsham UK
Date & Comments: April 9, 2003
Please note our correct email address.
Would love to hear from anyone who knows us
Guest: Mike Cline.....jr.
Guest E-mail: yomike@netzero.net
City, Country: Oceanside, California
Date & Comments: April 11, 2003
Hello,
I was wondering if by chance somebody would be so kind as to loan me a copy of the video of the BBC episode.
It has been several years since I have posted anything, but I would just like to say "hello" and I hope everybody is doing well. I left in 1989, and it has been quite a journey, but I wouldn't change a thing. I would like to encourage those that are perhaps thinking about leaving, to understand that it is tough, but worth it....BIG TIME! I look back and realize that that I had no future in the PB's, and I left the same day that I picked up my diploma.
I joined the Marine Corps and they pretty much deprogrammed, then quickly reprogrammed me, so I didn't have too many issues, and highly recommend letting Uncle Sam help those that are contemplating leaving. Thanks, Mike
Guest: Ebenezer Scrooge
Guest E-mail: ebenezer@christmaspresent.com
Date & Comments: April 11, 2003
I don't think I have a ghost of a chance of being published on this website, but I noticed Martyn Ricketts is using my Ebenezer Emergency Fund to pay for Russian Jews to go to Israel - bah, humbug. Let them use their own money, not my hard earned pennies. Next thing, Dick Wyman will be asking for a pay rise to post all your long-winded religious ramblings, bah, humbug. You lot are all too worldly and extravagant with your money, like that young Bob Cratchett.
Guest: Ivan Colledge
Guest E-mail: unc_ivan@qldnet.com.au
City, Country: Landsborough Sunshine Coast Australia
Date & Comments: April 12, 2003
Will add comments soon
Guest: anonymous
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 12, 2003
RECENT global events covering IRAQ is thought provoking to say the least. Particularly in similarily to the behaviour of the locals. I HAVE witnessed first hand over and over again various E B Members that have managed to get excommunicated from the group, go on a similar rampage, not of looting the local stores, but literally 'looting' their newly found freedom and release. Poor wretched people, who suddenly find that they no longer have to CONFORM, but have a mind of their own and are just overwelmed by it all.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: April 12, 2003
A very interesting commentary by Nick Gray, producer of the BBC program on the pb's. What comes through loud and clear is the pride and arrogance the PB's conduct themselves with. I am well familiar with this, one of the last "3 day meetings" over in Vancouver I attended the "leader" and a couple of locals made everyone wait, came swaggering in, hands in pockets, looking all for the world like a bunch of Gangsters- to whom they bore far more resemblence than the meek and lowly Jesus, to whom the people were drawn to, and followed him out of the cities. Scripture speaks of "servants" and shepherds, and warns of those who would take advantage of the flock- and also speaks of false prophets and false shepherds, those who would make gain of the flock. Not too hard to spot, really.
Guest: Oliver Bedford
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Sydney, Australia, ex-UK
Date & Comments: April 13, 2003
Interesting to see from "What's New" that Bruce the MoG has apparently visited what little is left of the cult in France. If, as seems to be the case, he's interested in increasing his number of members, what about reversing Symington's brilliant idea that the French should have to conduct their meetings in English ?
Glad to see that Alan Carvell's beloved Birmingham look like surviving their first season in the Premier League.
Cheers
Oliver
Guest: D - Still in
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: April 13, 2003
Recently a younger EB left in Northern Queensland Australia. I am praying he see's this and contacts me ASAP. He knows who he is.
Guest: Toad
Guest E-mail: toadhall@fastmail.fm
Date & Comments: April 13, 2003
Like anonymous of Melbourne, I have this vision of liberated EBs after the Elect Vessel has fallen. They turn to looting the meeting rooms, at first being seen to carry away chairs. Then they find the Scotch in the cellars, and are shown on TV carrying away crates labelled "Dear Jim", "Old Symie" and "Beloved Leader."
Guest: Jeremy Mott
Guest E-mail: jerry.mott@cidnet.de
City, Country: Germany
Date & Comments: April 13, 2003
Hallo friends, does any one reading this page live in Germany or any where near us on the Moselle? In the love and grace of our blessed soon coming saviour. Jerry.
Guest: S Crawshaw
City, Country: NQ, Australia
Date & Comments: April 14, 2003
Sorry "D-still in," but there is no EB meeting with 1000km of North Queensland. That's a good reason to live here!
Guest: Dave Simpson
Guest E-mail: simpsond_47@yahoo.com
City, Country: Cape Town, South Africa
Date & Comments: April 14, 2003
Contact me for some history, 1952 to 1964.
Guest: Oliver Bedford
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Sydney, Australia, ex-UK
Date & Comments: April 14, 2003
Maybe "D - still in" really meant a place in Queensland north of Brisbane, which, given the location of Brisbane and the sheer size of Qld, is not necessarily a place in North Queensland proper.
Oliver
Guest: Alan Carvell
Guest E-mail: alancarvell@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Dudley, UK
Date & Comments: April 14, 2003
I write with reference to Oliver Bedford’s comments on 13th April, how dare he make reference to my sinful past! Did he not read my open confession on this site 13th February where I tried to cleanse myself?
It was clearly stated that my wife Jill and I were trying to rid ourselves of the evil of football. And what does he do? Drag it all up again!! OK then, another confession! we failed; we ended up back on that slippery slope! We did retrieve the season tickets back out of the bin and we've not missed a match since, tut tut we even saw Blues do the double over Villa! (Sorry Judith Perfect and Gerry Spiers, just had to get that in!)
I wish I had the confidence of Oliver to think that Birmingham City FC will survive the Premiership! But I can only hope, and ask for all your prayers in this matter and that the good Lord will give guidance to Brucie and his boys and give them strength to do it.
With reference to the other league table Jan 8th to the person with the most entries on the peeb site, it looks like pm Clarke will win it hands down!
Sorry to Iain Gibb for bringing up football again, I know you would prefer a debate on Calvinism or 2 Timothy 2! (But that would possibly be more interesting than the Scottish football league?! Only joking you Scots, only joking!)
I notice there seems to be some class names on this site of late, The toad, Wayne Kerr, Ebenezer Scrooge, Thomas Tank, which reminds me we haven’t heard from Isaac Hunt lately!
Just an update, I’ve heard nothing more from my family since I made my visit to them in October, they’ve obviously concluded I’ve no hope and I’m a lost sole! Or my comments on this site have been monitored and forwarded to the peeb priests, who have decided to ostracize me again! How will I cope!!??
(Suppressed by request)
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: sheilamac1@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: April 14, 2003
Just found this site!!! My husband and I escaped 1972. Lost our parents, friends, job, house, but no regrets. Re the so called apologies and the relaxation in contact. We have family still IN and have visited unsupervised,there is real fear of discovery. Perhaps it is for those who have had an apology visit to give them a way back into the fold or a "sphere of salvation" as my family will insist in calling it! I'm sorry but seems to me it is all about THEM PUTTING THEMSELVES RIGHT BEFORE GOD! They are GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE after all??? I don't think it is about us at all. We joined the Anglican Church,so different it was a very healing experience. We found people with a belief far greater than ours, We don't attend often as we moved and have not been able to cope with another new start. What little faith I may have has been rocked so often that it has worn very thin indeed. However in true Anglican Tradition I carry with me on my journey through life a few simple words, A Collect for Peace, from The Common Book of Prayer which means more to me than all the years of EB's meetings and all their words put together.
Guest: Hilary Tyne
Guest E-mail: htyne@yahoo.ca
City, Country: Peterborough, Ontario
Date & Comments: April 14, 2003
I would love to get a copy of the Everyman program - would someone please tell me who to contact? Thank you!
Guest: Al
Guest E-mail: spellchecker@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Midlands
Date & Comments: April 15, 2003
Congatulations to Alan Carvell on BCFC keeping their "plaice" in the league but I am mystified as to how long you have been a lost "sole" Is that the Dover variety?
Kind regards to all
Guest: Chris Harwood
Guest E-mail: ChrisH@PREC-bh.org.uk
City, Country: Buckhurst Hill, UK
Date & Comments: April 16, 2003
Managed to view the Everyman programme this week and was staggered to hear that the three wise men were told the questions in advance! Their lack of reasoned argument or any sort of justification for their shallow answers was a revelation to anyone with open 'eyes'. The Bible stresses that we should test what we pick up, even the spirits (no pun intended!).
As an electronic engineer and computer programmer, the condemnation of these tools was extraordinary.
Seeing as I don't understand biology and the number 666 was clearly in the mind and on the lips of one of them, must I summarily condemn him as an agent of Satan?
No I'll class him as misguided but loved by God.
God bless all
P.S. To Alan Carvell. You're in trouble if Brm play West Ham!
Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, CT USA
Date & Comments: April 16, 2003
Greetings to All,
In the last few weeks we have seen Eden destroyed (again?), this time using armored vehicles and bullets. Nineveh has been overthrown again, this time by Special Forces and smart bombs. No Jonah this time so no repentance. Instead they all ran to hide. Babylon has fallen but she shall rise again. Is there a man of faith to be found today in Ur? If there is, will (s)he please step forward.
Is there any salvation, anywhere? It is abundantly clear that we all need salvation, especially salvation of our soul.
There is no longer a need for a Passover lamb to be sacrificed. It is too late for that.
Christ has been sacrificed and He is our Passover. "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."
Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. His tomb is empty.
Let us accept and trust Jesus Christ, the risen man in heaven, as our personal Savior and Lord.
Follow the man who has the empty tomb.
HAPPY EASTER.
Only by grace, Victor
April 15, 2003
Guest: L.A.
Guest E-mail: cyberzyd@yahoo.com
City, Country: Phillipines, KSA
Date & Comments: April 18, 2003
This one is cool! Hope to find what am I looking for.... :)
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: April 20, 2003
Just Imagine...
Yes, just imagine being under that kind of control again.....and no thanks to your offer to "come back into the "assembly"- because you didn't give to me in the first place,and you certainly can't take it away from me.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: Bristol, UK
Date & Comments: April 20, 2003
We follow God's will but others seek their own self importance at the expense of others by bending the rules to suit this purpose. Only on judgement day, what ever the faith, will man atone for his sins, whilst others still sin on earth. Take from life what is rightfully yours, for it is all too short, for glory only truly exists for thoose who are enlightened in life.
Guest: Cris Bell
Guest E-mail: seebee@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Auckland New Zealand
Date & Comments: April 20, 2003
Was interested to see the BBC broadcast video re exclusive brethren. Very interesting broadcast. Was even more amazed to see that one of the brothers on the tv program had actually been to visit me a few weeks before I left my peeb job, to try and encourage me from the way I was going. Amazing. I have heard from 2 sources in the church that now is not a good time to return to the peebs, as the place is in turmoil. (Gone Bananas was the words used). I have no regrets leaving and feel a lot more settled now. From things I have seen it seems like you can have gadgets now that I got in trouble for having last yr. Amazing again. I feel so happy now living life to god as he would have me live it. I do miss a lot of my old friends who are still inside. There are alot of good people in there that I feel sorry for as I know that they are too scared to move on. I admit I got thru my life in there mostly thinking that because I was a brethren that I was going to go to heaven without a lot of conviction, but I have come to see how wrong that was and that christ died on the cross to save me and that is what's going to see me thru into eternity. It's nothing that I have done apart from believing in him. He that believes on him shall be saved.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: April 21, 2003
I'm curious how many other folks coming from this group have had to deal with generalized anxiety disorder and depression which threw me into severe post partum depression after childbirth. The whole exclusive brethren system and so many people in the group sick and dying was depressing and 2 cousins were killed. Have others experienced depression and generalized anxiety disorder? The Lord comforts the oppressed but the bad feelings continue and won't go away. Sometimes listening to a message, I'm just reminded again of peeb deficiencies and error.
Guest: Dave Johnson
Guest E-mail: davidpjohnson@yahoo.com
City, Country: TX, USA
Date & Comments: April 21, 2003
I've been on this website for sometime, leaving messages, etc. While I wasn't raised in the same EB group as most on this site (e.g, Taylors, Jims), I was raised in the EBs. I have never really known what name we used until I did some research. So, is there anyone out there who was in the Tunbridge Wells group of EB's? My family was with them for many years until my grandfather got some books from England and began preaching from them. Seemed a visitor from Canada didn't agree with them, spoke up after a "reading meeting" and thus started a messy period of hatred which lasted some time. In the end, my family was put out, but still attended the meetings but in silence and no communion. Then they left and started their own group with that of the Renton branch of EBs. I beieve in Denton, TX (where all this took place) there are at least three different groups of brethren...Tunbridge Wells, Rentons and another small group, possibly a ?Grant or ?Kelly group.
Guest: Alistair Deayton
Guest E-mail: Alistair@Deayton.freeserve.co.uk
City, Country: Paisley, Scotland
Date & Comments: April 21, 2003
To "Suppressed by request" of Bristol, Uk who posted on 20 April. I and millions of other Christians will not atone for our sins on the judgement day. Jesus Christ atoned for my sins on Calvary when he died there almost two thousnad years ago, He, the just one for us, the unjust ones. He who knew no sin was made sin. Where sin abounded grace superabounded. Incredible, wonderful news. Hallelujah what a Saviour!!! Atonement means at one ment, I can be at one with God, the immortal one, because of the sacrifice of Jesus when he died on the cross. I don't know where you are coming from religiously but it doesn't seem to be Christianity, sounds like Biddhism or Hinduism or something like that. Jesus Loves You
Alistair
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: April 21, 2003
In my message of 14th I mentioned the words of 'A Collect for Peace' but there was insufficient space to include it so for those of you who know not of the Anglican Prayer Book here it is:
Grant, O God that your holy and life giving Spirit my so move every human heart, that barriers which divide us may crumble, suspicions disappear, and hatreds cease; that our divisions being healed, we may live in justice and peace; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Can we ask for any more really?? In my experience EB's are so tied up with their own trivial & silly little world & their interpretation of everything that sadly no matter what is said to them will be ignored as being just the words of someone not with the truth! Having lived OUTSIDE in the real world for so long now I find it hard to believe sometimes that people are still living this way, but part of my family do.
Guest: Duncan Litchfield
Guest E-mail: dlitchfield@gates.com
City, Country: Culburra Beach, NSW, Australia
Date & Comments: 22nd April, 2003
Left the EB's December, 1972 at twelve years of age. Father, N Bruce, Dentist, mother Margaret, nee Ellis. Now thirty years on, barely a period passes without a trigger. I recall hundreds of names and meetings. Appropriately coloured books. Even swine skin. Grog. At eleven years I could count to eight swallows of neat Teachers Scotch. This was stored in the family fridge next to the milk. Aberdeen. Broken families, bread and hearts. Microphone fears, hymns without tune, irreverent laughter. More Aberdeen. Every detail of the Ashfield (Sydney) hall. It's three day meetings. The ground breaking guitar playing and the ground breaking notion that Hales spelt backwards is Selah!
These recollections are involuntary and indelible. Although they are no burden. It is sad that my past is so polluted.
I can recall (around 1969-70) the slurred detail of J.T. Jnr's voice as he described his son-in-law, WBH, as a "bum" and a "bastard". Many years later, I was on Strathfield railway station late at night and I observed WBH sitting on a bench with his head buried in his hands, weeping. At that time in my late teens, I wondered upon "right" and "wrong"
Notwithstanding, there was an interesting article on the EB's in Sydney's, Daily Telegraph, 21st April, 2003. Headlined with hysterical irony: "World Without Sin". There is a photo of Bruce Hales mysteriously decked out in papal clobber. The article attempts to explain the cult and describe the current practice of righting past wrongs.
May I suggest that any apology by the EB's to right the wrongs of the past is of no consequence and is undignified. At least our Prime Minister, John Howard, maintains Australia's dignity by resisting similar apology re Aboriginal people.
Guest: Connie Bunning-Barton
Guest E-mail: paco.bar@cox.net
City, Country: San Diego, CA (formerly Indianapolis)
Date & Comments: April 21, 2003
To April 21 "Suppressed by request"
I would be happy to chat with you. My e-mail is paco.bar@cox.net or you may call me at (see below). Leave a message on the machine ...we screen all calls.
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 22, 2003
I appreciate your sentiments Alistair, but I believe our brother in Bristol was pointing to the day of Atonement. Whether he indicated the time or not does not matter. The day of atonement took place near two thousand years ago.All men atoned for their sins there,THROUGH THE MEDIATOR as our Bristol brother indicated. I must stress this day, has past. Paul says: when Christ died," then ALL have died".We died in HIM. That is how the penalty of Sin has been dealt with. His blood was shed along with ours, if our FAITH is stronger enough to see. It is ALL OVER. Jesus said "Now is the JUDGEMENT". AS John said He died not only for our sins "BUT THE WHOLE WORLD."To believe the Gospel of E.B. I would have to preach on every street, hand out tracts every spare minute I had, OR BE A TOTAL HYPROCRITE.
Guest: Connie Bunning-Barton
Guest E-mail: paco.bar@cox.net
City, Country: San Diego, CA (formerly Indianapolis)
Date & Comments: April 22, 2003
To April 21 "suppressed by request" - I apologize, I gave an incorrect phone number in my note above.
The proper phone number to reach me is 760-749-3396.
Connie
Guest: Bro. Francis CCN
Guest E-mail: fra59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: San Diego, Southern California
Date & Comments: April 22, 2003
On April 21 "Suppressed" posted a prayer from the Anglican Prayer Book which he described as "A collect for peace." Perhaps "suppressed" uses the Church of England 1662 version of the Book of Common Prayer. In the 1979 version published by the Episcopal Church USA that prayer is listed as "For Social Justice" on page 823 under "Prayers for the Social Order."
There is a prayer "For Peace" on page 815 which is listed under "Prayers for the World" as follows:
"Eternal God, in whose perfect kingdom no sword is drawn but the sword of righteousness, no strength known but the strength of love: So mightily spread abroad your spirit, that all peoples may be gathered under the banner of the Prince of Peace, as children of one Father; to whom be dominion and glory, now and forever."
I submit that the Brethren have lost their way in largely giving up the sense of universal mission expressed in these prayers and in the teachings of the Anglican and Roman communions. They have substituted the wrongful so-called "principle" of separation, a fundamental error of J. N. Darby, and are impoverished thereby and are living in error within a sadly introverted Christianity.
Guest: Mary, UK
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: April 22, 2003
Dick, thanks for drawing attention in What's New, to the article in The Guardian on 15 March 2003, as a result of Nick Gray's film. For those who are not familiar with the paper, it is one of the major left wing broad sheets in the land (UK). It will have been read by the media, publishing, legal, teaching, public relations and caring fraternity. Therefore, probably the most effective medium for raising profile !
Guest: Colin Lougheed
Guest E-mail: colinlougheed@UKCOOL.com
City, Country: Bangor, Co. Down, Northern Ireland
Date & Comments: April 22, 2003
It amazes me that, in a site which claims to promote understanding of a group who follow God's Word, that neither God, nor the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ is mentioned, rather squabblings over the group's history! When the Lord himself returns to the air and when rewards are distributed to His saints, do we believe that He will be interested in who was faithful to Mr Darby's teachings? Or do we believe that the "good and faithful servants" refer to those who have been true to Him? As a lay-person (or rather one unfamiliar with the ExB's), perhaps someone can enlighten me as to how one can "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature" (as in the great commission) if one cannot communicate with anyone outside the "assembly"?
Guest: Rachel Wesley
Guest E-mail: rachelwesley@hotmail.com
City, Country: Worthing, UK
Date & Comments: April 23, 2003
My family (maiden name Ghinn) were in the EBs until 1970 when the 'Taylor' split happened (he was found in bed with someone etc etc) so I've been free from this cult my whole life. However, my father was contacted by his sister who are IN at Farnham, Surrey, and we went to visit them. I, for the first time in my life, was able to ask questions and try to understand their 'religion'. Obviously they didn't eat or drink with us but we had a very good argument. He (uncle) heard what I was saying about Jesus, my beliefs, my evangelism and so on and aknowledged that we would be in heaven together - however, their main aim was to get us (well Dad anyway) 'back to the table' - we didn't accept what they were saying - obviously! But - they have since written to us enclosing the JNDarby tracts 'Separation from Evil' and 'The Notion of a Clergyman - Dispensationally the Sin against the Holy Ghost'. I'm in the process of writing back to them - any tips? PS - Darby quotes from Matthew 13:24-30 saying that the parable means we are to be separate now - however Jesus goes on to explain very clearly that the parable means at the end of times we will be separated - not now - I call that misquoting or taking out of context!
Guest: Candace Merriweather
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
Date & Comments: April 23, 2003
The "eating matter" was the beginning of JTjr's separation reign. I predict It will be the ExB's end.
Recent ExB apologies mean nothing until those apologizing are allowed to eat with the now considered "wrongly treated". All else is hollow and merely adheres to kow-towing to manipulative, political, publicity-fearing dictates of the new "Elect Vessel".
Admittance of wrong without sharing food is a cruel joke on both sides of the ExB wall. The most primitive peoples of the past and present do so with love, concern and as a requirement for survival of the clan.
Guest: Toad
Guest E-mail: toadhall@fastmail.fm
Date & Comments: April 24, 2003
Colin Lougheed has missed the point of this web site. The evidence presented here leads to only one conclusion: Any connexion between the EBs and Christianity is purely coincidental. EBism is a sect or a cult or whatever. The only way in is by birth. Those born in EBism do not require any religious belief to belong. They just have to mouth whatever is the current political correctness of the sect, and say what a great guy the current Elect Vessel is. The survival tactics of an EB would be recognised by the survivors of Nazism, Communism or Saddam Hussein.
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: stelesrod51@hotmail.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 24, 2003
Rachel it is better you do not repond to them. We could give you reams of tips, but those seeds will only fall on rocky places. They are ASLEEP! Jesus speaks of their condition as such in Math.13v25. Paul also explains their condition: "And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence [their world leaders from Darby onwards] so that they might believe what is FALSE" 2Thess.2v11. Paul exhorts not to lose hope over these Brethren, he says: "For we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are ASLEEP, that you may not grieve, as do the rest WHO HAVE NO HOPE [those still in] Beloved the Day of their translation is at hand. The "kingdom of His Beloved Son" is at Hand. The call is going out! This is a SPIRITUAL KINGDOM.
Guest: Harriette Shurtleff
Guest E-mail: HS54128@alltel.net
City, Country: Gothenburg, NE 69138
Date & Comments: April 24, 2003
Recently I have been able to see my three EXB adult children after a 27 year separation. Quite a long time ago, a retired missionary lady, after hearing me tell of the separation, gave me this little poem. It gives a little different perspective from what I had had.
"He drew a circle that shut me out;Well, I didn't do that, but often wondered how to draw that circle;
Heretic, rebel a thing to flout
But Love and I had a wit to win-
We drew a circle that took him in!"
Sincerely Harriette Shurtleff, Gothenburg, NE
Guest: William
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: April 24, 2003
The Independent on Sunday UK newsaper published an article on 20.04.03 by Rebecca Stott about her childhood in the Exclusive Brethren. The article was illustrated with a still from the BBC Everyman film.
Guest: Hilary Ruth Manning nee Heath-Coleman
Guest E-mail: paulandhilary@clara.co.uk
City, Country: Milton Keynes, UK.
Date & Comments: April 24, 2003
Guest: David Johnson
Guest E-mail: davidpjohnson@yahoo.com
City, Country: TX-USA
Date & Comments: April 24, 2003
I agree, Colin Lougheed has this site all wrong. In my opinion, we are all on this site to communicate to other Ex-EBs and those interested in (in laymans terms) how "bad" the EBs are. If we were praising them, more than likely we would be still with them. One thing that turned me off on Colins posting was the brethrenistic language used, very Biblical. Not that using scripture is bad, but the Brethren have a way of using it in every conversation, but rarely know what they are saying. Honestly, Colin, if you were never with them, you wouldn't understand completely.
Guest: Laurie Twinam
Guest E-mail: Laurie@twinam.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Sevenoaks, Kent, UK
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
Thank you, Colin L (Bangor) for your recent criticism of entries on this site. Shame on us if we seem to have lost heart in pointing simply to the work and Person of our Lord Jesus Christ as the all-sufficient Remedy for all the problems and tangles which the EBs have brought upon themselves!
Read Isaiah 59 (vv1-15) for an apt and graphic description of the state of these dear folk, so sadly misled by erroneous teaching – but let us admit that except for God’s mercy many of us would still be immersed in the same labyrinth . But the same chapter tells us that ‘when the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him’. Even if we feel personally unequal to solving the hard questions many of the EBs are facing – we can point to our Saviour and Redeemer, for there is nothing too hard for the Lord!
David said (Psalm 34) ‘This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles … O taste and see that the Lord is good!’. Sound advice for today!
Guest: Sarah Rowlands (nee Oliver)
Guest E-mail: rowlie76@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
I'm not sure whether the EB know whether they are on their arse or their elbow.....
I get pestered left, right and centre to let them come and see me (of which we said no but did finally get a letter, sort of apologising) and now I am being told (just last week) that I need to come to it that I was wrong in leaving the fellowship. This has pi*sed me off!
My hubby (non-peeb) initially tried to join but was cross examined like nobody's business, just like the law do. When we met, I told him there was NO WAY I could leave, (I was so loyal whilst in, not quite sure why?) but I knew we were right for each other, he decided to try and join. To cut a LOOOOOONG story short, the cross examining got worse and worse so I woke up one day and decided to leave.
We went through months and months of turmoil and even though I tried to do the right thing (in their eyes, and mine at that time) it was hell. It was THEM who 'shut me up' even though I wasn't told I was, and it was THEM WHO WITHDREW FROM ME, although not until we got married. They had to wait for a reason, being - 'cos I married a 'worldly man'!!
I just now feel so angered that they tell me 'I' did wrong in leaving the fellowship.
Guest: Chris Harwood
Guest E-mail: ChrisH@PREC-bh.org.uk
City, Country: Buckhurst Hill, UK
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
To Harriette Shurtleff on April 24, 2003
Harriette. Your circle is probably already drawn. You do it by still including them in YOUR love. If they jump out of their circle, they will be straight into yours; no issues to resolve on your part!
I pray it happens and soon.
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.plus.com
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
Contributors to the Guestbook, such as Laurie Twinam (April 25, 2003), should respect the Site Policy:-
“My purposes in presenting this web site do not include evangelizing a particular viewpoint on Christianity or any other belief system.”
Guest: Kenneth J. Murphy
Guest E-mail: kj_murphy@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Swansea, Wales.
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
A splendid, very much appreciated and informative facility for the seeker after the ttuth.
Guest: Joshua
City, Country: Brisbane, Australia
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
This is my first time on here and find it strange. There is another religion called the Independant Brothers in Australia who do the same teachings of the Exclusives. It's even made up of past members of the Exclusives.
Guest: Vanessa Cummings
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
To Sarah Rowlands
Don't be angry. They are not worth it. Do not waste your energy and time on people like that. You have met someone who you love and in the end that is what counts and that he loves you to.. You have done no wrong and finally you have realised what the hanky heads are really like.
They are not worth even thinking of.
They are just pissed of because they lost control of you and lost a baby breeder.
Get a life and enjoy and be happy.
As for them, tell them where to go. They do not like the papers and police mentioned at all. They will get the message if you strongly advise them where to go.
cheers vanessa
Guest: Vanessa Cummings
Date & Comments: April 25, 2003
Do you not realise they are trying to break through your barrier? Once they do that which is totally on their terms, they have you hooked. It will make you want more and more of them.
All it is doing, is making those who have got on with their lives, is making you confused and bringing you more hurt and anger. Because at the end of the day, the hanky heads are only doing so much because they are allowedd to do it. They still can't eat with you can They!
I say people should get on with their lives and forget them. I know it is hard, but mentally it is for the better.
Let's face it.. At least when they didn't speak to you, we all knew where we where with them. Now you don't know where you stand.
If they said hello to me in the street, I wouldn't actually acknowledge them at all as I don't know who they are and they are not my friends and the circle I move in. They are just trying to be friendly as I was a so called member. WOW WHIP DE DO!
I am not interested in their little games. They only visiting the ones that they think they can intimidate. Sorry, it doesn't work around here
Must be away folks take care till next time
vanessa
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: charliescu@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: April 26, 2003
To Joshua April 25,
Please contact me. I'd like to know about the Independant Brothers that you refered to.
Thank you.
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: (Suppressed by request)
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: April 26, 2003
To Bro Francis thank you for your comments and prayer. I do use a UK version but "The Collect for Peace" I mentioned is actually included in the most recent version of the Liturgy of The Scottish Episcopal Church, (the wee blue book as it is known). I am still a member although I now live in England, but as the Church of England and the Scottish Episcopal Church are in full communion I am equally a member here. It is said most Sundays as part of the service and it is the simpleness of the words and the wholeness they convey which so appeal to me. I know EBs would disaprove of it because to them it is WRONG to read a prayer, but for me doing so and repeating the words of the liturgy are so comforting after all the years of unstructured meetings.
Guest: Claudia Silby
Guest E-mail: claudiasilby@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane, Australia
Date & Comments: April 26, 2003
Guest: Adrian Joyce
Guest E-mail: adrian_r_joyce@hotmail.com
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: April 27, 2003
Hi all, this is just an email to let you all know I am alive and doing well.
If anyone wants to drop in on me and say hi, I still frequent the Star Hotel in Hoddle St on most Wednesday and Thursday Nights.
I wouldn't put my living address for obvious reasons, so this is the easiest way to say hi.
Peace to you all
Adrian
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: sheilamac1@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: April 27, 2003
I would have liked to see the Everyman program broadcast by BBC and wondered if anyone can please tell me where I can obtain a copy of the video. My email address can be used to contact me.
It still surprises me that they were prepared to even consider appearing on TV never mind actually doing so. I have just read the correspondence page about this and the description given of the 'priests' is exactly as I would have expected them to react. However let us remember all we who have escaped and recognise this behaviour, it is because they know nothing else, that is the only way they know how to communicate, they have no understanding of 'normal' life. Yes it is awful!! But these so called 'priests' have been born and brought up in that way of life and living in that environment how could they ever learn that there really are other and better ways?
Guest: Karen
City, Country: Sydney, Aus
Date & Comments: April 27, 2003
This is to Joshua 25/04/03 regarding the Independant Brothers group. I was in fellowship with the Independant Brothers up untill 2000.
You are correct. They are made up of some previous members of the Exclusive Brethren. The teachings and rules of the Independant Brothers are very identical of the Exclusive Brethren. This web address was given to me by a friend for which i am ammazed at how the Independants are following the Exclusives.
Guest: Jenny Hunt (nee Hilton)
Guest E-mail: refinnej@iclway.co.uk
City, Country: Nottinghamshire, England
Date & Comments: April 28, 2003
Guest: (Suppressed by request)
Guest E-mail: charliescu@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: April 28, 2003
To Karen 27/4/03. Joshua has not contacted me as yet. Maybe he will not visit this site a second time to read my invitation to contact me. Why did you leave Independant Brothers? Would you recommend them? You can contact me via email if you wish. If there is anybody else who can tell me anything, please feel free to contact me.
Thankyou, Charlie
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.plus.com
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: April 29, 2003
For the avoidance of doubt, the Everyman programme is being repeated on BBC1 at the peak viewing time (for insomniacs and burglars) of 2.15 in the morning. This is actually rather unkind of me because it is part of a group of programmes, called “Sign Zone”, subtitled and signed for the deaf.
Guest: Karen Harding
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: April 29, 2003
Charlie,
I was Ex-Communicated from the Independant Brothers for not following rules.
NO I would not advise anyone to join. What I have read here so far, they are exactly the same as the Exclusive Brethren.
Guest: Steven
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: April 29, 2003
Whilst I was in fellowship with the EB I heard of the independant brothers also. much the same if you ask me.
Guest: Candace Merriweather
Guest E-mail: expeeb@earthlink.net
Date & Comments: April 30, 2003
BBC Everyman re-broadcast
Re-airing of the Everyman ExB show is planned at an insomniac hour. However, I am encouraged about progress for exPeebs. Yeah!
ExB victims will move one more step forward. Yes! Again, deserved exposure of a questionably tax-exempt system will be broadcast. Another public peek at a system that perpetrates emotional, mental and psychical abuse will be shared with the unknowing.
Yes, yes, yes. The re-airing may not gain prime-time statistics or change lives but the "System" story will be spread an inch or two forward.
Now, if someone can help me figure out complicated BBC websites so I can write directly to thank Nick Gray I shall feel particularly pleased.
Ever onward and upward.
Candace Merriweather
Guest: Gregory P Morris (St Deiniol's Library)
Guest E-mail: deiniolgpm@btinternet.com
City, Country: Hawarden, North Wales
Date & Comments: April 30, 2003
I am looking for a copy of the Taylor Brethren 1990 edition of the Little Flock Hymn Book. That is not the 1973 revision of the 1962.
An index of authors and first lines of all the English Editions is nearing completion and the latest version is available from me without charge deiniolgpm@btinternet.com in MS Access Format to any who are interested. Metrical information is also included
The versions in () are not yet entered. The Following editions are intended to be included
1856,1881,(1894),1903,(1928),1932,1951,1958,1962,(1973 Taylor), 1973 Kingston Bible Trust, 1974,1978, (1990 Taylor), 2001.
Earlier editions by Denny, Deck and others will be included at a later date. I would also be interested in buying/borrowing a copy of Mr Kelly's 1894 hymnbook if anyone would be so kind as to lend me a copy.
Thanks
Greg Morris
St Deiniol's Library
Hawarden
Flintshire
CH5 3DF Wales