This page contains entries made between October 1, 2002 and December 31, 2002.
These names and addresses are posted to enable people to contact friends and loved ones. Please do not exploit this information for commercial purposes.
Guest: Eleanor
City, Country: Adelaide, South Australia
Date & Comments: October 3, 2002
Having left the church of our own accord my husband and I did not expect to hear from anyone in relation to returning to the fold. However a few weeks ago my father made contact after 8 years wanting to speak with me. I was quite willing to catch up with them as I had not seen them for so long. It went pretty much as expected with no real gain other than a much appreciated chance to catch up with my mother. My father made some comment about things changing and the fact that he had rung me was testament to that. The change was so sincere that I have not heard from him again. A few days later those in authority rang my husband and requested that they be allowed to come to our house and speak to him. The entire excercise was to apologize for things they felt they had handled inappropriately prior to us leaving, none of which had any bearing on our decision. Once their conscience was appeased they were ready to go. They had absolutely no interest whatsoever in what questions we had or what we wanted to say. So all in all we were unable to see any genuine change at all and certainly no reason to return to their beliefs. And just an observation: Once withdrawn from no communication is allowed on the basis of “Withdraw from iniquity” If their beliefs are not strong enough to ring up and enquire about their children's or grandchildren's well-being why are they still there anyway?
Guest: p m clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
Date & Comments: October 4, 2002
Two words describe the Pb's-Pride and Arrogance.Webster's decribes them as follows: Pride-an undue sense of ones own superiority, arrogance, conceit. Arrogance-full of , or charactorized by excessive pride , or self esteem,overbearing ,haughty. This is nothing new, the same thing was written of the Pharisees of the Lord's time, and truely, the PB's have become the Pharisees of Christendom. Of all the things that they are guilty of, the greatest is that they dispise the work of God in other believers, and in doing so, have missrepresented the gospel.
The lesson to be learned is,what do we value the work of God as?What price to we put on it?Am I proud?Am I arrogant?How do I represent the gospel?Am I an ambassador for Jesus Christ?Just leaving the Pb's doesn't automatically rid ourselves of those traits- indeed, scripture says it is what is within that defiles us, not what is outward.
Guest: Olwyn Silby (nee Reardon)
Guest E-mail: olwyn_s@hotmail.com
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: October 6, 2002
Guest: Ken
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: October 6, 2002
To Suppressed of September 24
What a shame that the EB's deprived you of an education and the ability to reason.
Hopefully you are by now back where you belong; you will be able to spout your nonsense on a day by day basis, 365 days a year, for the rest of your life, and you will be in great company.
Dick Wyman maintains this site; he is not responsible for all comments on the site. Your personal attack at Dick demonstrates what a low form of humanity you are; albeit well suited for membership of the EB's.
So "on your bike" suppressed!
Guest: Peter Harrison
Guest E-mail: peterpan3399@virgin.net
City, Country: Derby UK
Date & Comments: October 7, 2002
To Mr Supressed 24 Sept.
Can you let us all know the name of the Mental Hospital that you've escaped from!
You are a joke! Sunshine!!
Guest: Jolie
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: Kingston, Jamaica
Date & Comments: October 7, 2002
Can't believe such a site exsisted and glad to have found it.
Jolie
Guest: Frikkie Klopper
Guest E-mail: Grootpiel@ananzi.co.za
City, Country: Johannesburg, South Africa.
Date & Comments: October 9, 2002
This is indeed an extrordinary site. The Exclusives appear to believe that the Earth is a mere six thousand years old. Do they also believe it to be flat? Why do they wear blue headscarves? And why do they allow telephones and not fax machines or cellphones? They make much entertaining reading although of course I feel sorry for those whose lives have been disrupted and even sorrier for those who have been obliged to hang on to much of the teachings of the religion.
Guest: Tarn
Date & Comments: October 12, 2002
Guest: Helen
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: October 12, 2002
I have been contacted my my eb parents after 18 years to meet with them later this month. I am very excited at the prospect and have told them I will meet them on a 'social' basis only without priests which they have agreed to. They are going to meet my children, their grandchildren too for the very first time. I know they have always been anxious for photos and information about my children but still feel confused about the whole meeting. Many of you have been contacted by eb's and family still in, am I to expect that this will be a one-off? That is what I think it will probably be. But I would be grateful to hear if others have remained in contact and are likely to be able to see family members still in, again.
Guest: Vanessa Cummings nee Janson
Date & Comments: October 12, 2002
Thanks to Dick's site.
Through this site I have just found my father's first cousin Johanne Robinson nee Janson. We met yesterday in Tekapo, New Zealand and had a lovely day together. We are going to keep in touch. Thanks so much Dick.
Cheers Vanessa
Guest: Mickey boring mouse
Guest E-mail: hobomobo@psycho.net.uk
City, Country: London
Date & Comments: October 13, 2002
What a load of c___!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guest: Jill Mytton
City, Country: Beckenham, UK
Date & Comments: October 14, 2002
Having just looked at the guest book after some time of not looking I am a bit puzzled by the vitriole that sometimes appears. Do we really need more unpleasantness aimed at another? I have been told by someone still in that the brethren regularly have the contents of this web-site printed off - this presumably includes the guestbook.
In addition a comment made by someone still in is about the bitterness which he reads on these pages - this is of course used to vindicate their position. You can of course write what you want but remember that the EBs DO read these pages.
Jill
Guest: GOLF SUPPLIES
Guest E-mail: http://soccerpartners.org/golf/main.html
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: October 15, 2002
NICE SITE
Guest: Philip Abercrombie
Guest E-mail: paberbie@optusnet.com.au
City, Country: Brisbane Australia (formerly Tauranga NZ)
Date & Comments: October 15, 2002
Love to hear from anyone who remembers me. I was excommunicated in July 1980 so have been out quite some time.
You're more than welcome to say 'gidday' and send me an email. Love to you all
Guest: Ted and Esther Druckenmiller
Guest E-mail: tedruck@quixnet.net
City, Country: Trenton, Missouri, USA
Date & Comments: October 15, 2002
Dear friends:
On August 6th Esther and I left a message on this site to let all know of our move from New Jersey to Trenton, Missouri. Now here 2 and a half months we're more thrilled than ever to have made the move.
However, we continue to carry a burdened heart for our grandson Neil Garlick who, we understand has been out of the EB fellowship since earlier this year. If anyone can give a clue of his whereabouts, how to contact him or put him in touch with us, we would be grateful. Our address is 113 Country Club Place, Trenton, MO 64683 and phone number 660 359 2288. Neil we look forward to hearing form you. Our home is available!
Dependant on all he has heard about us since 1977 when we were put out of the EB's, he may fear contacting us. We would gladly tell the other side of the story and assure him and any others of our children, grandchildren and brethren, of our love. Having been thrown out of that system was hard at the time, but in a few days and since has proven to be the best thing ever to have happended to Esther, nyself and our two youngest children, Garth and John. We have nothing but forgiveness in our hearts for them all.
Forgiveness provides a wonderful deliverance. I have forgiven Laurence Markham and John Macdougal for all the hardness they put us through, also poor old JHS, now passed on, whose untrue comments filled his ministry books at the time Esther and I went to court re our children in 78/79. Also, any and all who showed the hardness that results from failing to know and express the love of God so manifest in Jesus His well beloved Son.
So far not one of the Westfield NJ brethren have contacted us to review the shameful way I was withdrawn from in my living room the night of September 19, 1977 and told I could come to the assembly meeting the next night and "Fight my own case." Also, my dear brother John has never said sorry for locking our father in a room in his home when they went off to meetings. Finding this to be true I went with my older brother Paul and took our dad out of the home to live with Esther and myself in a family affectionate environment. We had the privildge to care for him five years till the Lord took him home. John was so surprised upon returning home from meeting and not finding his dad in the locked up room that he took me to court for trespassing. The judge hearing this case dismissed it saying of Paul and myself who took father out, "This is a simple case of two men who wanted to visit their father. They had every right to do so and that not through the window, and I dismiss the case." Ephesians 5:14 has a wonderful message for all sleepy Christians, "Wake up thou that sleepest, and arise from among the dead, and Christ will shine upon thee." I myself still admit the need for a nudge now and again! We tend to drift off. We need beloved friends to keep alert at the present time as we await the comming of our absent Lord and Savior who "will come and will not delay." Hebrews 10:37. Esther and I just returned yesterday from San Francisco where we were considering the subject of "The comming of the Lord." A very fine three days. It will do our hearts good to keep thinking about this a lot more. 1 John 3:2,3 reads "we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." Lot of love to all, Ted and Esther Druckenmiller
Guest: David Tracey
City, Country: Cambridge, England
Date & Comments: October 15, 2002
I'm interested in comments seen in these postings which mention 'priests,' usually in a context which indicates some position of special authority. Having grown up in the Open Brethren, I assumed that the EB's adopted the same principle of the priesthood of all believers. Is this not the case, or has the word acquired some special meaning? Apologies if this isn't an appropriate submission for a guestbook entry, but I wasn't sure where else to ask.
Guest: John Gibbs
Guest E-mail: mandy_gibbs@fastmail.fm
City, Country: Johannesburg, South Africa
Date & Comments: October 16, 2002
Dear Anne Landers,
My son and I spent most of the weekend getting our pool ready for summer. While we were slogging away, I told my son how pools had to be filled in when I was his age and the thought struck me that the very rule that started me questioning brethren rules is the one I would have quite happily obeyed today!
Does this mean that I am ready to consider the brethren's amnesty offer? and will the priests organise an interview with me too on their next visit to south Africa? and why didn't they contact me on their last visit? I am particularly interested in their "no strings attached" offer made to others to relocate them to Oz.
Signed, LEFT OUT
Guest: anonexeb
Guest E-mail: anonexeb@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: October 17, 2002
17 th October, 02
In response to David Tracey. David the term "priests" is "brethren speak" for those in authority who attend the spiritually sick(?), Galations 6:1 style. Borrowed of course from the Jewish priestly system where a priest visited the leper, for example, and had to pronounce him clean before the rank and file of the people made contact.
Undoubtedly used by the system to strike a measure of fear into the hearts of the errant and uphold the "class" superiority of the ruling group.
Not to be confused with the "priesthood of all believers", a term hardly used in these brethren's circles. Whilst paying lip service to such traditionally brethren doctrines, they in fact deny the truth of this by the reversion to Judaistic principles in their assembly administration.
Guest: Oliver Bedford
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: October 17, 2002
Re query on priests by David Tracey, October 15.
Yes, up to the 1960's the Jims genuinely believed in the priesthood of all believers. But then Taylor and especially the Hales brothers introduced the idea of priests as being special brothers who could "deal with evil", like priests examining lepers in the Old Testament. In 1965 Bruce Hales senior and John Hales pushed the concept of everyone having to confess their sins to a priest. Taylor actually shot that particular one down after a few months -- he had been ill and out of circulation (alcohol-related); I don't know whether it got up again after his death.
My father, as a "priest", took the decision to shut me up, which meant stay in your bedroom and we'll slip your meals round the door, and many others have experienced similar priestly treatment !
Cheers.... Oliver
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
Date & Comments: October 17, 2002
It is interesting to note that EXPB's claim JND as one of the early founders of what became known as brethren, mainly for his excercise about leaving a clergy based system-and claim this as a fundamental diferance between them and "christendom" [everyone else but them] yet have set up a heirarchy that rivals the most organized system in the world-including titles ie. "The Man of God", "The Elect vessel" and "Priests" Just more evidence that they have become the Pharisees of christendom. Of course, as always, noting error in others should always cause one to examine our own hearts, otherwise we are just as guilty as they.
Check out the link Dick posted on "What's New"-a very enlightening and valuable addition that highlights just how far we have got away from the original principles and excercises of early brethren.
Guest: Alan Carvell
Guest E-mail: alancarvell1@aol.com
City, Country: Dudley
Date & Comments: October 17, 2002
Well folks, sorry to upset you! But as you know I had my meeting with my family, and they failed to convert me back, so the TV, Video, computer etc, etc. are not up for sale! Still taking offers on the wife though!!!............ It was nice to see my Mom and brothers, but (in a house, no ornaments, photo’s, paintings!!)
Reminded me of a waiting room at a refugee camp! - not that I frequent them on a weekly basis! - As expected they tried the religious bit, (nice!!!)
I put it to them why they can’t mix with all races, (as I do,) and does it matter what colour or religion we are, why do the Brethren put themselves on a pedestal and claim to be the elite??!! Their answer was because we are!!! - says it all doesn’t it!!.
We didn’t get anywhere, except I had the satisfaction of meeting my Mom, (now 83) and brothers. But sad to see my brother Pete who is paralysed from the waist down in a wheelchair, but seems to be coping OK.
I’ve since heard no more, except from my Mother who has written a note that she was concerned I did not own a Bible, and has sent me one with my initials embossed in gold, that brought back memories! (I would have preferred tickets to a Birmingham City match, or money, but life’s a bitch!!!!!)
So to those of you out there, who have been, or who will be contacted, don’t hold too much hope, IT IS FOR THEIR BENEFIT ONLY!!!!
On a final note B’ham City FC. play our rivals West Bromwich Albion on Saturday, as before please pray for the Blues that they will win, as you did to get us into the premiership!!!
Guest: Mark Davies
Guest E-mail: markdavies60@hotmail.com
City, Country: London England
Date & Comments: October 19, 2002
If you know me get in touch !
Guest: Tarn How
Guest E-mail: rednblackgirl@hotmail.com
City, Country: NZ
Date & Comments: October 21, 2002
Hi there Tarn....you know you left your 'name' but nothing more on October 12. I just ask are you a genuine Tarn or some sick peeb browsing this site? Anyway cheers bud, and hey please leave your email address next time. I'd like to catch up.
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne Australia
Date & Comments: October 22, 2002
I would like to correspond with someone that knows Jesus as a "living Realty" of his/her own being, and not just a formulation of ideas and thoughts and emotions within their mind, that they have acquired second-hand from others. The worship of God, Jesus tells us, is in "Spirit and in Truth". How many know absolute Truth and not relative Truth. By relative Truth I mean that form of truth acquired second-hand from others. By Absolute Truth I mean a transmission by Divine grace. How many know Jesus as an idol of their formulated concepts and feelings within their mind. How many know Jesus as their TRUE IDENTITY, the "first-born of every creature"? How many are prepared to be "pure in heart" and see God for what HE IS?
Guest: Michael Gurr
Guest E-mail: magic.mick@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Bedford England
Date & Comments: October 23, 2002
I am so pleased to have found this site so a big thank you to Dick, I have recently made contact with others who are out (and become good friends), I have also had a meeting with my brother, the first real contact for 30 yrs. So live in hope, remember the Berlin Wall came down. Love and best to you all. Mick.
Guest: Dennis Hope
Guest E-mail: hopes@shaw.ca
City, Country: Calgary Alberta, Canada
Date & Comments: October 23, 2002
I am formally from Maple Creek Saskatchewan.
I left in 1973..........
My parents names are George Hope(passed away April 2000) Joan Hope(nee Stowell)
Ph# 403-569-0519
Guest: anon
Guest E-mail: wallaby99@bigfoot.com
City, Country: London UK
Date & Comments: October 24, 2002
I would be very interested to know of any news of my relations, the Sloggetts. The whole extended family was in the Taylorites until the 1980's since then some have left, but some are still in. Thank you
Guest: BBXX
Guest E-mail: Blackbirdxx@Ntlworld.com
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: October 25, 2002
Cameron Elkins, do you have a new email address ? Drop us a line.......Cheers !
Guest: Bruce Conyngham
Guest E-mail: rbcon@maxnet.co.nz
City, Country: Albany New Zealand
Date & Comments: October 25, 2002
My mother Helen Mary Conyngham [m. Reg Conyngham - dec. 1980] nee PIESSE d. of Mary MCgaveston and Christopher Gisborne PIESSE, died July 2002 after a short illess at the age of 97. She was the eldest of her siblings all of whom and their spouses, predeceased her. They were Muriel [m. Philip DOOUSS]: Victor P. [m. Renie Marshall] and Frank. The Conynghams, Doousses and Frank Piesses were out of the ExPBs for many years. Would those sending news consider including more genealogical type information? This could be very useful in the long term as well as now.
Guest: Dr R. K. LAL
Guest E-mail: rk.lal@cimap.res.in Drrklal@netscape.net
City, Country: Lucknow -INDIA
Date & Comments: October 26, 2002
I like this site very much
Guest: Hazel Henderson (kinnes)
Guest E-mail: hsk@sennik abelgratis.co.uk
City, Country: Scotland
Date & Comments: October 26, 2002
Received into fellowship in Markinch, Commercial Street when I was 12 yrs. old. Father withdrawn from re eating question 1959-60, sister Eilidh and self followed. Married 1963, sister married 1968 and both still loving Jesus more and more each day. Both husbands born again. I have two sons, sister no family. One son, born again, and married to a lovely christian girl has one daughter, other son still undecided, please pray for him - he is married with three sons. We felt lost and a sense of not belonging when withdrawn from, but God in His great mercy has never let us go. My sister become a member with the Open Brethren and we ourselves worshipped with them for a while. We now worship at a Baptist Church in Kirkcaldy. Would like to hear from other long lost friends who were in Fife from 1950 onwards.
Guest: Wesley Franzen
Guest E-mail: franzen7_6onbearsfootball@satx.rr.com
City, Country: San Antonio, USA
Date & Comments: October 26, 2002
I left in May of 2000. My Mother has been to this site several times, so I decided to check it out. I am 13, and I left the bretheren when I was 11 with the rest of my family. Just thought I'd check out the site, and read a few of the humor stories.
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: October 27, 2002
The UK Government is overhauling charity law, the major change being the [proper] requirement that charities exist for the public benefit - which, of course, can hardly be said of the numerous peeb trusts. The Guardian published some details at http://society.guardian.co.uk/charityreform/story/0,11494,798819,00.html. There are links to the full document [97 pages], the forward by Tony Blair is worth reading at least. Any comments on this can be sent to the government during the consultation period which lasts til the end of the year.
While the peebs seem to be floundering around at the moment, trying to reconsider their traditional obnoxious way of treating most people, are there any suggestions of changes they should make to stop being such a disgrace to the God whom they claim to represent?
Guest: Nathan Cheng
Guest E-mail: nathan_w_cheng@yahoo.com
City, Country: Irvine, CA, USA
Date & Comments: October 27, 2002
I grew up in a family that has received much help from the late Watchman Nee and the late Witness Lee, Christian ministers who received much help from Darby and the Brethren. Though I have never met with any Brethren assembly, I feel as though my personal experience has some elements in common with the experiences narrated on this site; though instead of being mainly negative, my experience has been in every way extremely positive.
Here is the URL to a site that summarizes the history of the Brethren and their "difficulties", and then briefly relates them to Nee and Lee:
Guest: Gerry Spiers
Guest E-mail: gerryspiers@fsmail.net
City, Country: Worcester
Date & Comments: October 27, 2002
To Alan Carvell - Phew, I was getting worried for a while there mate, but good to see you weren't kidnapped. I haven't had my call up yet, but I was only six in 1970 when my folks withdrew to the relative safety of the Frosties. So I guess they don't give a s..t about me! Do I care? What do you think? By the way - if I was a praying man, I would pray for the Blues, but I'm afraid that the red side of Mersey takes precedence! Sorry.
Guest: John McMullan
Guest E-mail: dove@oberon.ark.com
City, Country: Heriot Bay, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: October 27, 2002
I was wondering if there are any friends or relatives of the late AW Roach?
Guest: Anon
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: October 28, 2002
A couple of days back a freind of ours lives up contry and told us that the brethren were coming to see children and sometimes bribing them with money and a holiday in the hope of getting them back. Has anyone else had this happen to their kids or is it just the one area of England?
We have to be able to protect our kids from their clutches but if they start using money as a weapon, what kid would'nt love a bit of money?
I just hope that there might be someone on this site that it has happened to so that maybe they can tell us how it went and what happened.
Guest: Bud Morris
Guest E-mail: bud@poetique.cc
City, Country: Delavan, Illinois (USA)
Date & Comments: October 29, 2002
I am sure that the "Jimmys" were the most cultic of the Exclusive Brethren groups. We (TWs) always referred to them as "the Ravens" because that was the division where the two groups branched away from each other. The TW's never separated from family members who were not breaking bread, etc., but I get frequent leters from other Ex TW and KLC Exclusives that demosntrate a lot of mental scarring from exclusivism. Sometimes they rub my own scars into raw weeping wounds again.
What hurts me is to see so many throw out the baby with the bath. Don't give up the joy of knowing Christ, and don't give up the joy of meeting in a Scriptural way. (Maybe you should check out the Opens in your area.)
By way of Christian encouragement, let me invite you to try my poetry page at www.poetique.cc.
Respectfully,
Bud Morris
Guest: Sheila Seesahai
City, Country: Winnipeg, Canada
Date & Comments: October 29, 2002
Hello, Wesley Franzen from San Antonio. I am your cousin! My parents are Elsie and Tony MacLachlan. I am their younger daughter. I have a son, not quite as old as you; he is seven. Your Mom stayed at my house when she came here a couple of years ago. Nice to 'meet' you Wesley.
-Sheila
Guest: C
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: October 30, 2002
I know of someone who works for a group of EB's and some of the stories I've heard seem rather strange. I was curious, if you don't mind me asking, is it true that an EB male is unable to have "relations" with his wife unless they are trying to have children? Also I was told that they are limited to no more than 4 children which would explain why most seem to have the required amount. It would also explain a lot of other things if this were true.
Guest: Mark Gillingham
Guest E-mail: mark@courtyard-partnership.co.uk
City, Country: Wiltshire, England
Date & Comments: October 30, 2002
With reference to the rumour of bribery of children, a young, single ex-EB that I know was recently visited late at night at his house by some EB relatives from another city, and invited away for a week-end, no strings (apparently) attached. They also asked him to accept £100 from them. Feeling rather insulted, he firstly refused the money, but later decided to take it, since £100 buys a lot of useful things!! He didn't accept the invitation, and happily, they went away, poorer and possibly, wiser.
Guest: Martyn Ricketts
City, Country: Evesham, Worcestershire
Date & Comments: October 30, 2002
Just thought I would add a few comments to encourage folk out there.
Having been brought up with the Brethren from the cradle (left EBs in 1970) I would like to point out that I am very thank full for a lot of the sound teaching that was amongst the Brethren. Whilst I feel for many who have been separated from family in recent years, I am thankful for the godly influence of my parents (Stanley and Joyce Ricketts of Evesham) and the influence they had on my life.
It needs to be pointed out to many who vist this site that not everything to do with the Brethren was wrong. No movement is perfect..even the Church of England is unclear on some clear biblical issues!!
As I have said before on this site we have a message for a lost world..a message of hope and salvation that many from the Brethren gave their lives for. We are called to share the gospel of the Lord Jesus too. Forget running the Brethren down. Life is too short and eternity is before us. We will all have to give an account for our lives before God. Often we can use the past as an excuse for not walking with God but it will not be a good enough excuse for Him.
Let's use this site to encourage God's people..instead of unkind words what not share a verse of scripture that may strenghen some one who has family in the EBs?
God bless you all
Martyn Ricketts
Guest: DC
Guest E-mail: don't have one
City, Country: Gisbn New Zealand
Date & Comments: October 31, 2002
I do not think this is a very good site to have on the web.I suggest you swipe it.
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.wyenet.co.uk
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: November 1, 2002
If, like many other ex-Brethren, Martyn Ricketts has recently received an invitation to return, he might do well to accept.
Guest: David Shephard
Guest E-mail: d.shephard@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Bedford, England
Date & Comments: November 1, 2002
An Exclusive Brethren family have recently moved to a house just 4 doors away from me so I see quite a bit of their movements. I was amazed earlier today to see that they have Halloween objects in their front window! These Brethren are normally so separate from "the world and the things of this world" that I find it strange that they can keep a day that is linked with witchcraft etc!
Guest: Francis Mortyn
Guest E-mail: fra59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: Southern California
Date & Comments: November 1, 2002
Saturday November 2 is a special day - All Souls Day - on which to remember in prayer those who have died in the Christian faith. Please exercise the spirit of forgiveness with a gracious word in prayer about even those whom you feel have harmed you. Let us never speak unkindly of the Brethren and their leaders but rather recalling that they too are members of Christ's very body, the one Holy Church, and beloved of him even as you and I are, light a candle and offer up their names to the Lord on All Souls Day. Each of us can seek to excel at forgiving the trespasses of others even as we enjoy the forgiveness of our Father. .. ..
Guest: Mark Watson
Guest E-mail: radar@radarsbluesandgraphics.com
City, Country: Wollongong NSW Australia (Ex Tahmoor/Picton EB's)
Date & Comments: November 1, 2002
Without any vaild reason DC says that this is not a very good site to have on the web and that it should be swiped.
It would appear just from that comment, that either 1/ DC is an insider, or 2/ DC does not understand just what this site means to people who are no longer in the EB's for whatever reason.
Despite the opression/repression/hypocrosies/ and wrong doings dished out to many in the EB's, people do form associations and friendships, whether it be of a christian or a non christian nature.
This very site has brought many of those friendships back together, and as an added bonus has aided in the healing process for many who are no longer in the EB's. People who have not experienced what it was like to be in the cult, would only be able to grasp a limited understanding of what we have felt/endured, what we are going through, and how we have overcome the adjustment to reality if having been able to do so.
To swipe a site that has more healing potential than the entire global medical profession, and brings back together friends and families once torn apart, would be a travesty.
Although no longer following the Christian path (and quite happy with my life), being judgemental is definately not a trait befitting anyone who claims to be a christian.
There are those who believe and those who don't, and although once a believer, circumstances and events helped me choose the direction in life that I thankfully took. That does not make me any better or any less than a christian.
So DC, if you feel that this site does not belong on the web, please offer an explanation as to why, and list some alternatives. And also we won't bite you if you reveal who you are.
Also to my friends and anyone who knows me, please note my new email address.
cheers
Radar (Mark Watson)
Guest: Tim Twinam
Guest E-mail: timt@surfbest.net
City, Country: Stowe, Vermont, USA
Date & Comments: November 3, 2002
To Richard Green:
Why would someone with the wisdom, discernment and intelligence to pick out what was Good from what was Bad want to return to the Dead Zone?
Anyone that studies the history of the Brethren can see that there were once mighty men and women amongst them. There were dramatic theological concepts taught by early PB fathers that have spread globally and have positively affected the way millions of Christians worship. Admittedly, a mixture of spiritual and intellectual pride within the EB's eventually stifled most of the Good ... but that does not mean that the Good never existed!
Let's be gentle with one another and watch that 'baby in the bathtub'! We have all suffered.
Peace, Tim
Guest: Philip & Margaret Hoyle
Guest E-mail: mapahoyle@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Whangarei, New Zealand
Date & Comments: November 3, 2002
We were in the E.B.s in Maungaturoto, N.Z. Left in early 1970s. My wife`s maiden name is Boakes. Daughter of Auther & Angelea Boakes. We have 3 grown up childen all married & have 4 grandchilden, 2 boys, 2 girls.
Guest: Vamessa Cummings
Date & Comments: November 4, 2002
To the Person from Gisbourne NZ
The trouble with people who don't like this site is that the truth hurts and you don't really want to know the truth..
Get your self a life and live.
Cheers ex hastings nz
Guest: Oliver Bedford
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: November 5, 2002
It is pretty clear that the Jims' numbers-boosting exercise is being carried out on a rather selective basis. Anyone who left in 1970 or earlier seems to be regarded as "the pits". On a visit to England only last month I phoned my mother, but when I offered to visit her she said no, we have to maintain separation, you have chosen your way of life. None of my cousins has been approached either, including those who left later in the 1970's. I don't think the Halesian tiger is changing its stripes, maybe just smiling before it gets on with its next feed.
Oliver
Guest: Doug
City, Country: Belfast
Date & Comments: November 5, 2002
I often see in some of our local shopping malls, families where the the ladies have generally waist length hair covered by a headscarf and ankle length skirts, also the younger ladies are dressed in an identical fashion. Some people I have spoken to have said they are either Plymouth or Exclusive Brethren, or some have suggested, an independent methodist sect. I know Brethren folks dress in a similar fashion but not as "extreme", is this the "norm" for EB/PB dress code? and do they not believe, within reason, believers should be able to dress in an "individual" style, as long as it is "modest". I would be interested in your comments. One more question/comment, how do they "evangelise or attract" new adherents?
Guest: peter
Guest E-mail: pjmccormack20@hotmail.com
City, Country: Belfast
Date & Comments: November 5, 2002
RE Oliver Bedford's entry
It would appear it is being left to individuals to become "exercised" about someone and then to follow it up with a fellow "priest". I know of at least one who left in 1970 who has been approached, so this is not necessarily a factor in choosing. What will probably guarantee freedom from approach is if you have been labelled as an active opposer or potential troublemaker.
Guest: G H
Guest E-mail: boyzen83@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: November 6, 2002
My partner left the church 5 years ago and since then he has been struggling. We met a year ago and he moved to stay with me. Everything went well, we lost contact with the peebs (which is good) and started building our own life until they managed to track us down. For the past months, they have been calling him up everyday and pressuring him to return home using the family as a bait. He finally couldn't take it and last week, he left without a word. I was left in the dark. Apparently they must had threatened him about something. I know he left unwillingly and he will suffer back at home again. What can I do? Will there be anyone who can help me in this situation? I am not able to contact him at all.
Guest: Glenda Kilroe's relative
City, Country: Canada
Date & Comments: November 6, 2002
Hi Glenda I'am still a peeb so I don't wanna say my name cuz I could get crap for being on here but I'am at school so no one knows. Too bad Grandma died I miss her so bad and Grandpa so lonely now he came to visit us a while ago he's really weak, if you're viiting him don't tell him about this cuz like I said I could get in a lot of crap bye 4 now P.S look forward to hearing from you
Guest: a current EB
City, Country: Victoria Canada
Date & Comments: November 6, 2002
It's so funny to hear of all you people. Some of you my dad was best friends with others I see your parents or family at 3 days or fellowship meetings. However being a EB is hard and some things are pretty messed up still. I wonder about leaving sometimes but then think of my family and just can't. It's so sad to see so many people were so sucked into Jim Desidns program. I am going to 3 Days with Bruce Hales in Decamber. He really is a nice man.
However I gotta go now Some Please get back to me I'am here often But this my first entery
Guest: Pete
Guest E-mail: petesaura@aol.com
City, Country: Devon. UK
Date & Comments: November 6, 2002
Well, I have had my call after 17 years from my older brother to say sorry. There was a long silence when I said I wanted to thank him for the life changing event of being kicked out. The best thing that ever happened to me! But I have now passed on the good news to my wife who was never of the EB's.
We could all go back BUT she must stop shaving her legs...grow hairy armpits..take off the make-up...become an alcoholic and never answer back, cook for the thousands, give up watching Pop idols, Coronation Street, Emerdale, say goodbye to her family (whoopee)
I can't understand what she is waiting for!!
Guest: Dr Peter French
Guest E-mail: pjfrench@celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: November 6, 2002
I am saddened by what GH has expressed. I wish that I could do something, but I can't, and it is hard to explain to someone never amongst the peebs, that those who have left, and particularly those active here, are 'of the devil'.
I am aware of this case having been in contact with his friend who comes from a well known peebs family - he is also registered in the 'names' list here.
This is a clear case of the typical peeb pressure-pressure-pressure tactic that has finally broken down someone's defences. We are talking about a young adult vulnerable materially, but in a an excellent realtionship he could never have in the peebs [his words to me].
They will use anything, any enticement at all and in this case have 'spirited' the person away from another country back here to Australia.
Let us never underestimate the power and influence of the devil. If this person has regrets again - he has already gone home temporarily once - there will be no limitt to what they will do to keep him. If he attempts to take his own life, as he did before, they may well view that as the 'penalty' for his sin. In any event I would expect that they will regard him forever as 'morally blemished' because of the lifestyle he chose.
This is a clear case of our utter helplessness. Maybe someone has a suggestion - I have the locational details - I would be most surpirsed if this person took this move of his own free will.
Any who are thinking of going back - just think of why you left ... and you will be regarded as 'stained' and you will also be reminded that you have a 'moral history' [negative emphasis - you'll be a hero for 5 minutes then become almost untouchable.]
Guest: G H
Guest E-mail: boyzen83@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: November 6, 2002
Dear friends,
I am writing again with regards to my partner who has gone back to the church. I have tried to contact him but in vain and from what I had gathered, he is now under the care of 2 elders. His father refused to let me speak to him and he should be put on guard now. Although he returned to the church on his own, he did it unwillingly. Adrian hates the church (its too harsh a word but its the only I can think of) and the only reason why he might go back is because of the immense pressure he got from his family. He misses his mum a lot. This is the second time he has done it and although most of us speculate that it will only be a matter of days or weeks before he leaves again, I am pretty sure his family and the church would have known his tricks by now and I am scared at the thought of him being stuck in there. Even if he really does want to go back to the church and even if he isn't my partner, I will do all I can to stop it because I know what he really wants in his life. All he ever wanted in life is just the simple pleasures that we have all taken for granted. I hope I can do something to help but there's pretty much nothing I can do except plea for help here as I am overseas and I do not know anyone in his area nor any ex-peebs. His family is located in Beaconsfield/Berwick, Vic, Aus. I have his full address and other information that may prove handy and if anyone here is willing to help, please either email me or contact Peter J French at 0413 126 728. Although I do not know much about the peebs but I do share the pain of many others. My partner left without a word nor hint and the worst thing is when you know there's someone out there who truly loves you but you might not see him again. I am terribly shaken by this whole incident and all I can do now is to pray for him and many others.
Guest: Steve Ballard
Guest E-mail: sballard@interchange.ubc.ca
City, Country: Vancouver, Canada
Date & Comments: November 7, 2002
To: a current EB in Victoria, Canada.
You might remember me and you will certainly know my family. Feel free to check out my entry on this site under the "Names" section. I am now a lawyer in Vancouver. You will probably know that I had a very "bad" reputation amongst the brethren as a result of being withdrawn from in 1988. Recently, the brethren contacted me to advise that my "case" was mishandled and that I should have been treated differently. I am very glad to be out of the brethren and I have a much more rewarding and enjoyable life now than I ever could have had if I had stayed in the brethren.
I am in regular contact with a number of the brethren up and down the coast (who are definitely not supposed to be talking to me). I have made sure that each one of them can trust me not to reveal who they are. If you want to email me, I would be more than happy to talk to you and if you need any help, I would see what I can do.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria
Date & Comments: November 7, 2002
To the kids from Victoria and area still "in" the pb's.
I know your parents, grew up with them, know your grandparents and still consider them friends, no matter what you have been told about us. We make no claims other than wanting to be here as ambassadors for Jesus Christ and to do what He would have done- shepherd the sheep and feed the lambs, visit the sick and bind up the broken hearted, and preach the gospel of salvation. We strongly affirm the neccesity of having a personal knowlege of your sins forgiven-indeed a very personal concern of mine is wondering if many of you are indeed saved. The concept of being born into the fellowship, breaking bread as babies, leaves no occasion for making a personal stand and commitment to Jesus Christ.
I made this commitment myself, as a young lad, giving my heart to the Lord, in the King's Rd, room at a gospel preaching by Bill Mosely. The gospel was preached back then, by R.L ["green ink"] Carter, Willie Dunn, Alec Russell,,and many others, all with the Lord now.
Without any contact with truly born again believers allowed by the heirarchy, where are you going to hear the gospel? The terrible thing is there is very likely a whole generation who has grown up in the PB's actually beliveing they are saved, by reason of being "in the assembly" or "in fellowship" without any realization of what that means. The scriptures plainly state that there will be many people who call themselves christians [but have never made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ and accepted his death on Calvary's cross by faith for their sins] who the Lord will say in a coming day- "depart from me, I never knew you!" The scripture tells us these people will tell the Lord they attended church, and even did works in his name-and even called themselves "christians" but without that all so important personal transaction with our Lord Jesus Christ, will find themselves in a lost eternity.
Much as been said about "returning" and coming back into fellowship" but I tell you, the only fellowship that God recognises is that of the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ, and every blood bought saint is "in fellowship" and no one can take that away from us. I have myself, many years ago, preached the gospel at the Tolmie Ave room in Victoria, BC, long before you were born, and would give anything to go back there and preach the Gospel of Salvation, and the message that forgiveness of sins is only obtained by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, come here as a man, who died and rose again, and lives today in heaven, preparing a place for those who have placed their faith and trust in Him. I cannot do that, so will use this venue to do so, hoping and praying that some of you will read this, search the scriptures for yourselves, be convicted of your own sins, and realise the only hope of salvation is by putting your trust in Our Lord Jesus Christ. I tell you the truth- there is no other way in which you can be saved. Do not be deluded that because you were "born into the assembly" or are "breaking bread" or are "in fellowship" or are in the "right position" you will be saved.
Guest: anon: a friend in Victoria
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
Date & Comments: November 7, 2002
Message to: a current EB in Victoria, Canada
Hello, I am interested in hearing from you. I know what you mean about leaving family and friends; it is very difficult. I left some good friends; perhaps your dad was one of them.
Take care, and write again!
Guest: Martyn Ricketts
Guest E-mail: mc@rickos.evesham.net
Date & Comments: November 8, 2002
Just wanted to assure Richard Green (1st November) that I have not received an invitation to return to the "Tayloritte Brethren" and have no intention ever of returning to them if they gave me one but I am unsure as to why he thinks I would do well to accept.
My comments regarding the Brethren and how I am thankful for the influence of godly parents, in no way upholds and approves of the current unscriptual practices and teachings of the "Tayloritte Brethren" or gives any indication I would want to return (who wants to return to a prison when you are free?)
Tim (3rd Nov) made some excellent comments regarding not "throwing out the baby with the bath water". As I have said before, things started to go pear shaped in the 60s (even before) but that does not make all the good stuff bad.
I cannot agree to any of the current unscriptual practices of the "Tayloritte Brethren" but that does not mean I throw out some of the excellent teaching of the early, godly Brethren men.
If Richard checks out his history of the Brethren movement, he will discover many men and women of faith. George Muller for example who built the orphanges in Bristol (England) by faith. Charles Stanley lived by faith preaching the Gospel throughout the UK and many lives came to know Jesus as Lord. These are just two of many who served the Lord with a fire in their hearts to see the lost saved.
My desire is to keep a balance view as possible, at the same time being aware that many are still slaves to the "System" and many families are divided because of it.
Let us not be bound by bitterness against those who have wronged us but let us have the same attitude as the Lord Jesus had when suffering at the hands of those who crucfied Him "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"
God bless
Martyn Ricketts
Guest: withheld for obvious reasons
City, Country: oxon
Date & Comments: November 8, 2002
I currently work for an EB company and have worked for them for more than one year. I am not and never have been EB, and am finding it more difficult by the day to continue to work for them. It is the lies and deceptions, ask an awkward question get a deceptive answer. I can see you all agree with this by what has been written. So far I have only spoken to one of you on the phone, who has been very understanding and helpful, as I am not EB. I did understand his caution and I hope he understood mine.
One thing I must tell you, I have learned today that this site is being monitored by a company for the EBs so do be careful what info you give, maybe that's how they could contact some of you. Freedom is everything k.
Guest: Philippa Davis
Guest E-mail: using a friends comp.
City, Country: Worthing W Sx formally of London
Date & Comments: November 8, 2002
Having left the brethren in the early 70s as a whole family my father David Davis has decided to return. He has been brain washed into believing that he will be able to maintain a relationship with his family. How sad when he finally realises that he has lost us forever. 4 children 7 grandchildren and a multitude of friends. We are devastated to loose our father this way but they have hounded him at his most vulnerable, I would find it easier to grieve him if he had died. My number is 01903 240879 if any one remembers me, I would love to hear from you.
Guest: Stephen
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: November 9, 2002
I received an email from Adrian Joyce's partner in Singapore. It appears his parents have tracked him down I suppose from his resume on this site. A Mr Sangster apparently called in to see him in Singapore [Brethren Member] and the next few days led to what his partner suggested almost a kidnapping of Adrian back to his parents. Is it possible that all of us recalcitrant ex-members might be kidnapped? Or have they reformulated the doctrine of the rapture?
Guest: P J French
Guest E-mail: PJFrench@Celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: November 9, 2002
To STEPHEN
I don't think that they want us back - they were glad to get rid of and see us go - remember?
To ANON-OXON
So they use someone to monitor the site in UK? Interesting - there is reason to believe that out here it is done very close to 'home'. In any event none of us need to feel 'threatened' - we got our freedom from the need to feel that way when we left. We haven't left God, we have removed the distance from God that exclusiveism brought about. I am as sure of that as I am of anything.
TO EB/Peeb SYMPATHISERS
Maybe there was some good at some stage, although when you go back and look at what 'arose' as 'issues' that resulted in enormous loss and heartbreak through the generations, you can be forgiven for wondering if it really was any different apart from being in a different time. Go back as far as the [in]famous J N Darby [depending on the view taken], and you will discover without a great deal of effort, not much difference. I truly believe that he would be the Hales of today were he here today.
RELIGION or CULT?
Some here would find some benefit in considering this issue - as it is an issue. If it is/was a religion, was it Christian, or anti-Christian? If it is not a cult, is it simply coincidental that the major distinguishing characteristics of cults feature in the Darby-Raven-Taylor-Symington-Hales-Hales groupings?
There were clearly those right through who were not of this ilk, but am I the only one who remembers C A Coates, J B Stoney and others, [let alone true men of God in our time who had a definite impact on our lives], who were in effect 'rubbished' behind closed doors for their 'weakness' and about whom it was whispered that it was '...doubtful if they would be with us today...'?
Sadly, the congregation in the main, were and possibly still are 'duped', brainwashed or simply understandably too scared to break ranks. The fear of that threat that the devil will get them, without realising that has happened where they are, stops them taking the first step.
I believe in prayer and pray for the extrication of all those who are genuine believers in Christ and trust in Him. May they truly find the strength to separate from evl ... and such evil.
Guest: BBxx
Guest E-mail: Blackbirdxx@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Berks
Date & Comments: November 9, 2002
Mr Non EB from Oxon drop us a line.
Guest: G H
Guest E-mail: boyzen83@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: November 10, 2002
Dear all
This incident shook me a lot and made me think a lot as well. I always believe the true form of religion (any) should be a selfless act of love to anyone. I personally find it funny that there are peebs getting others monitering this site, checking emails etc. Lets just say I know it is a sin to kill someone, therefore I hire a hitman to kill the person. Am I at fault? Think about this.
I realised that some of the most helpful and selfless people in this world are actually ex-peebs, which led me to realise if this religion/cult is really all that bad after all. I came to this conclusion: all things started good, but things change after the greed of man overrides him. I personally thnk if the peebs can break down that brick wall of theirs and move along with time, they could be very well respected and popular.
After reading Philippa Davis's posting, I no longer find it weird that my partner has left. I don't know what these people use, but they definately have a way to get into someone's mind. They could, no doubt, but they definately can't get into their heart. All things happen for a reason and if you do the right thing, the right thing will follow That's what my partner will say if he faces problems, and it works everytime. I pray for all those who still are ignorant about their lives and wish that those who are back at the church have the strength to decide their path.
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.wyenet.co.uk
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: November 10, 2002
Martyn Ricketts (November 8, 2002) describes the Taylorite Brethren’s current practices as “unscriptural”. On the contrary, it is scripture (albeit arguably a perverse reading of it) that the Brethren cite as authority for all their practices. If this were the only issue, then his call to “Forget running the Brethren down” might be valid. However, it is not the only issue.
The Brethren’s practices are objectionable because they are incompatible with Human Rights. If defence of these involves running the Brethren down, then so be it.
Guest: Stephen
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: November 10, 2002
Yes Peter they were glad to see us go.P.B's are a cult, as they centre their beleifs around one person. Now that one person is DEFINITELY not JESUS but a flesh and blood strongman that has repossessed their houses from a lesser evil, as Jesus Himself foretold. Having said that, I do not judge them for that, for Jesus said "they know not what they do".
Guest: Priscilla Martin
City, Country:
Date & Comments: November 10, 2002
Barnet, UK
Have just been contacted to help me find my way back! Glad to have the comfort of the web site and realise that this is for their benefit not ours. I got the impression that they are trying to make amends for the past as they feel the end is near and that they may have been a 'little harsh' on some. Also have heard hat there is a BBC programme, radio or TV I don't know, coming up soon and I think they are trying to make themselves look better.
Was in Barnet and prior to that London Park Street withdrawn from in 1974.
The person who contacted me told me that some have gone back and appear to be taking meetings and generally being publicised to encourage others to work harder to get others back. Needless to say those that have returned are elderly.
Guest: Hannah Hutton
Guest E-mail: hannah.hutton@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Date & Comments: November 10, 2002
) on Sunday, at 08:52:03
What is their criteria for contacting people? I think there is a bit of discrimination going on as no one has contacted me in the last 32+ years since I left in 1970 aged 4!!
Oh well, I won't hold my breath waiting for contact from any of the Bodman family (my father was Dr Ben Bodman) or the Bristol meeting, and they won't be able to persuade me to go back, but will be quite welcome to join me at my local Church of Scotland. Hope that hasn't put them off!
Best wishes to all,
Hannah
Guest: John McAlpin
Guest E-mail: johnm@profilemarketing.com.au
Date & Comments: November 10, 2002
Guest: Mark Watson
Guest E-mail: radar@radarsbluesandgraphics.com
City, Country: Wollongong NSW Australia (ex tahmoor/picton/eastwood eb's)
Date & Comments: November 11, 2002
So the pb's have a company monitoring the site for them. Great stuff. To the person monitoring who reports to Mr Hales, please thank Mr Hales for his dad John Hales, helping out my dad by buying the 3 acres of property next door which enabled my dad to buy his house.
Ironic that it was OK for John Hales to own property which was a very profitable investment. yet when I purchased a property in Tahmoor, I was told by Mr Hales that I had to sell it as we were not allowed to have investments.
And maybe Mr Hales jnr knows why his dad refused to do anything when I spoke to him about the abuse that our family was copping from the local priests, instead the abuse seemed to step up a notch. Yes abuse indeed, repeatedly. It was one of the priests favorite to continue asking me if I masterbated. Then I overheard him asking my dad the same thing. Our family was continually harrased for having "special friendships" for associating too much with another family. Yet it was OK for the priests to have their special friendships. I could write a book on the harrasment received at the hands of Mr Hales and our local priests. The funny thing was that when my father was dying I wanted to get back in fellowship so I could see him, and the priests after hearing my 'confessions' said that I had a hide to want to come back to fellowship after the sins I had committed. ironic that I had only decided to try and get back after I received a visit. That was back in late 70's.
Ironic too, that I had a premonition of my father's passing, and upon ringing a priest to enquire how my dad was, and insisting that I be told, I was told he had passed that day and that if I attempted to attend the 'burial' I would be removed and considered to be trespassing.
And they have a hide to call themselves christians. They can contact me all they like, this fella ain't going within coo-ee of them.
Please pass that info on dear site monitorer.
Guest: Liz Franzen
Guest E-mail: lizfranzen@yahoo.com
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: November 11, 2002
Hello everyone. Please note the new address. Our computer crashed quite a while ago and we are pretty clueless on how to get it going again. It's not fully up and running properly but I have managed to get an email address. Sorry to anyone who tried to contact lately - try again at the new address.
Guest: Wynford Dore
Guest E-mail: wynford@compuserve.com
City, Country: Stratford-on-Avon, England
Date & Comments: November 11, 2002
Great to catch up with some old memories...tho' I have even more fun in my life than 'in the old days' - so I do not live in the past!
Hi to all old friends...I'm immersed in helping get rid of the symptoms of learning difficulties (dyslexia, dyspraxia, ADHD etc) - now also working on autism with exciting prospects of sorting that too. Many will be surprised I'm doing something useful.
Guest: Dave Tomkins
Guest E-mail: tomkinsd@aol.com
City, Country: PERSHORE WORCS UK
Date & Comments: November 12, 2002
Ref Hannah Hutton 10 Nov: The criteria is you have to invite them. My sister decided to contact my brother (the only one still in out of our family after 70) to tell him he should show some concern for our father who [is] getting very infirm (87). He came with his wife and 2 daughters and 1 son (not allowed to attend on his own). He told her only reason he was there was because she had contacted him and he needed to be invited. He obviously translated 'showing some concern' into an invitation. No need to mention the conversation of the meeting, the usual nonsense, he needed to get 'right' etc, etc. The follow up letters have started now. If you get 'right' we can give you practical help etc.
Guest: Hannah Hutton
Guest E-mail: hannah.hutton@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Date & Comments: November 12, 2002
Thanks for that Dave, I guess I won't hear anything then. But at least your sister got some response - I think in the past they would have just ignored any correspondence.
My sister and I visited my grandparents (Dr and Mrs A. P. Bodman) nearly 20 years ago. They were very sweet and invited us into the house for a short time (we were just teenagers at the time so not likely to do any harm!), but another lady from their meeting saw us so they were ex-communicated for a while.
I have no reason now to contact any of the others still in (and they did not get in touch when my father died), but they are often in my thoughts and I wish them well.
Hannah
Guest: Anon (Because of recently being hassled by them)
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: November 13, 2002
Several references recently to the hypocrisy of the Hales Brethren inspired me to list several, of which I have first hand knowledge. Consider these...
I could go on........But I did the sensible thing and left, even though they would consider that THEY withdrew from ME ! You won't find a pig in brown stuff that's happier than me either !
Guest: tennison kalayathinal
City, Country: Codacal P.O.,KERALA-676108., INDIA.
Date & Comments: November 13, 2002
I herd about exclusive brethren from my friend.
Then I would like to study more about it.
thanking you,
tennison.
Guest: A current peeb
City, Country: Victoria Canada
Date & Comments: November 13, 2002
To a friend in Victoria, Can I ask who you are? I would really like to know, however I understand if you don't want to say. Are you youngr or older? Please get back to me ASAP. Thank you!
Guest: Frikkie Klopper
Guest E-mail: grootpiel@ananzi.co.za
City, Country: Pretoria, South Africa
Date & Comments: November 13, 2002
I find this site fascinating. Not allowed cats too! What about dogs? I have been advised that the world isn't flat, but it is 6,000 years old! Not sure about the rest of the universe. And Jesus didn't have a TV. And don't say anything bad about the "holy Spirit", he'll get you in the end!
Guest: Hannah Hutton
Guest E-mail: hannah.hutton@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Fleet, Hampshire
Date & Comments: November 14, 2002
Hi Priscilla, I don't remember your sister Olivia or Chris Nunn, but apparently I went to school with their son Edward. I think he was probably in my class in the first year of infant school, but I don't remember him after that.
Hannah
Guest: current peeb
City, Country: held
Date & Comments: November 14, 2002
dick wyman: how childish. how immature. i can't believe someone who once had the priviledge of actually being brethren can even have the nerve to write such things it is so blatenly ovbious that you are a victim of complete envy and jealously. i trust you will simply GROW UP, and get on with your life. if you want to leave, do so... but continuing to have all these issues about the brethren is proof that you can't actually just forget about them. it's proof that you just can't leave them alone. it's proof that you are a discusting, evil person.
Guest: Brother Francis CCN
Guest E-mail: fra59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: San Diego, California
Date & Comments: November 14, 2002
I am writing to say "Amen!" to Martyn Ricketts' post in which he advocates eschewing bitterness and instead cultivating *forgiveness*. This is right on target. The requirement that we *forgive* those who injure us is central in the Christian walk according to scripture. Personally my way to seek to forgive the peebs is by whispering their name during "Prayers of the People" in the Anglican liturgy of the Mass. Sometimes I light a candle at the Shrine of Our Lady and call on our Heavenly Father to give to the peebs the blessing which we give voice to in the Prayer for the Church in the Book of Common Prayer: "Where she is right, strengthen her; where she is in error, correct her," and so on -- read the whole prayer; IMHO it's very beautiful and to say it aloud surely puts one in a forgiving frame of mind. .. ..
Guest: Oliver Bedford
City, Country: Sydney
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
It is nice to see "current peeb" (14 November) breaking the rules by using a computer. No wonder he feels the need to be anonymous. His specially tailored peeb education obviously hasn't taught him how to spell; but clearly he has learned from his superiors how to be abusive, which even a cursory reading of the New Testament would show him is not a Christian character trait.
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend, England
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
to Current Peeb 14 Nov
You say Dick has not forgotten the peebs - so why should he? I've forgiven them, but I have no intention of forgetting. Then you go on to make a typical peebish wild assertion, unsupported by any kind of evidence or logic '...it's proof that you are a discusting evil person'. That's just proof that your spelling isn't too special!
cheer up you silly sod
luv Gerard
Guest: Darren Hughes
Guest E-mail: Darren.hughes@orange.co.uk
City, Country: Saul, Glos - Formerly Calne
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
Hannah, Priscilla
If you know the Nunns then you may know my sister Melanie who married James. Unfortuneately still 'in' and therefore I have no contact with her.
Guest: Also a Current Peeb
City, Country: Eastwood (home of the Elect Vessel), NSW, Australia
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
Dear Current Peeb of 14 November.
I am also a current peeb and check this site regularly.
Please learn to spell otherwise the whole world will believe that all us peebs are extremely thick and that a home education has its limitations.
Also your attack on Dick Wyman is baseless. If we peebs are proud of what we believe, who we are, and the fact that as James Symmington said "we have nothing to hide," we should be happy that this site exists and encourages people to talk about our wonderful closed society and that a spotlight is shone upon us.
We don't want people to think that we are not free to think for ourselves do we? that we can't think for ourselves?, that we do not tolerate free speech?, or heaven forbid that we, as a group, exhibit all the characteristics of a cult?
Current Peeb, please think carefully before you use a keyboard again. Also, in case you are not familiar, the computer programs include a spellchecker; try it next time.
See you in church.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw .ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
Before I suggest the entry by "current peeb" is simply that of a rather juvenile person, who lacks empathy for all the suffering and agony that still goes on as a result of the self serving PB agenda, I have to admit I used to have the same attitude when I was "in".
I remember thinking [and acting] the same way- this was "our" fellowship, and if anybody disagreed, then leave- simple as that. I gave no thought of the separated families, the marriages broken up, the mothers and fathers who would never see or speak to their children again, the children who would never see their parents again, brother against brother, sister against sister, the grandchildren who would never know their grandparents, the grandparents who would never know their grandchildren, the only contact being made after a death in the family, no chance to even say goodbye. Separation from evil is right, and scriptural, but we were separating from believers, holding ourselves up in pride and arrogance. We despised the work of God in other believers, and therein lies the greater sin, for we put ourselves up against God, and in doing so, missrepresented the gospel.
I remember deliberately walking in front of a brother, standing a little off to one side at the grave as we buried his grandfather, and never even so much as recognising him. After all, "we" were the "church" and he had chosen to leave.... Yes, I remember.....and trust I will never act that way again, to anybody.
Guest: A Friend In Victoria
City, Country: Victoria, BC Canada
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
To: A Current PEEB In Victoria
Hello, I can understand your curiosity about me; I am I am curious about you too. However, using the guestbook to communicate freely might not be the best thing for you and I. Will you communicate with me privately? That can be arranged.
Let me know. Your Friend in Victoria.
Guest: A. Trustee
Guest E-mail: Trustee@Ntlworld.com
City, Country: The Real World.
Date & Comments: November 15, 2002
This goes out to the Current Bun...oops Peeb, sorry. I'm surprised how many God fearing people (Peebs) take an interest in this site. As you know peebs trust nobody, not even their own, they always need Proof. I am a non believer. I don't believe in the Devil yet Peebs do, does that make me Evil? Keep up the good work dick you have helped many. As for the Current Bun not the brightest crayon in the box, are we ?
Guest: A current non-peeb
Date & Comments: November 16, 2002
To a current peeb (NOV 14): How childish. How immature. I can't believe someone who is still in the dark of actually being brethren can even have the nerve to write such things. It is so blatenly obvious that you are a victim of complete lies and scams. I trust you will simply GROW UP, and open wide your eyes. If you want to GROW UP, please think... but continuing to be trapped in their lies is a fact that you are their victim. It's proof that you have totally sold your soul without knowing the truth. On the other hand, you are not very brethren yourself using a computer. It's proof that rules of the brethren are merely tailored for their advantage.
I pray that you will see the truth and proof we have soon.
Guest: Hazel
Guest E-mail: withheld-sorry
City, Country: Herts UK
Date & Comments: November 16, 2002
to the current Brethren (nov 14th)
I am not an ex Brethren but I am in an exteemly loving and happy relationship with one and I would just like to ask a couple of questions which no one else can answer.
Why are ex Brethren being contacted to return?
What are you told is the reasoning behind it?
Why would you want these "ungodly" and "evil" people back?
Why are there several different types of approach? Not all ex's are being treated the same.
You see I just don't understand - after all "my" God would not want to cause the pain that has and is being caused by the bullying tactics that are being employed. He would allow families to speak with each other without constraint. He would not try to tear families apart.
I have seen and heard what goes on when you "visit" and I deal with the upset that it causes. You didn't want these people who you threw out or who left so please leave them alone.
Guest: Mark 'radar' Watson (Wollongong NSW Aust) ex Eastwood/Picton/Tahmoor ('58 - '76)
Guest E-mail: radar@radarsbluesandgraphics.com
City, Country: Wollongong NSW Aust (ex Eastwood/Picton/Tahmoor peebs '58 - '76)
Date & Comments: November 16, 2002
ahha, a current peeb in Eastwood where I spent my first 13 years or so in the peebs.
I don't really find it amazing that they get on their high christian horses and then hypocritically break all the rules, such as getting on a computer and visiting here. Back in my time just about every third person was doing something behind the cult's back.. yes even some of the leaders.
I say it is good that the current peebs pop in here and leave a message or two. It will serve two purposes. 1/ They may realise what a hypocritical bubble they are living in and find freedom. or 2/ They will continue to show the rest of the world who visit here, the proof of what narrow minded, hypocritical and uneducated bunch of family busters they really are. But in reality, most of them in the peebs simply have never known any other life than what they were born into and been brainwashed with. I know as I was once one of them.
Apologies to those who have sent emails direct, I haven't had a chance to respond to all yet.
cheers
Radar (oops... known as Mark Watson)
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
City, Country: Melbourne Australia
Date & Comments: November 17, 2002
Not only do Plymouth Brethren lie to the Goverment to avoid rates and taxes, they cover up the behaviour of sexual deviants and paedophiles in their ranks. They are too scared for a scandal to hit the press. My cousin was molested sexually by his uncle in P.B.'s but they covered it up, including his father. Now imagine how my cousin felt when he was soon confronted with his uncle who had been kept out of fellowship over this offence and other offences. No wonder his life ended up a litany of divorces and even jail. This man [Plymouth Brethren Brother] was a caretaker would you beleive in a large Primary school in Ballarat. He tried to molest me but failed even though he used physical force. Dare to suggest their precious leader is an adulterer, even though you have a sworn statement from 12 credible witnesses of highest repute, you are withdrawn from forever and personally abused without a trial. It is obvious that Plymouth Brethren have degenerated into a cult who worship whatever set of beleifs and mental idols their leader creates, claiming of course he is inspired of God like the Pope.
Guest: nonnie
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: November 17, 2002
Surely the "current peeb still in" 's entry is tongue in cheek? I don't believe the person who wrote that entry is still in for one minute. Recognise it for what it is...having a go at what the peebs stand for in a humerous way and having a good giggle at everyone's expense...?
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: November 18, 2002
I failed to omit in the above this particular member of P.B.'s was let back into fellowship after only weeks of being out. So you see moral weaknesses, even of the worse kind are lightly treated by this lot. Even further in their desire to cover up for their so-called testimony to the world, they commit a crime collectively. Their so-called priests by not revealing these crimes to the police are GUILTY by being an accessory to the same crimes of paedophilia. The only real crime in their books, is to CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY. Indeed their Leader has far more temporal power than any Pope could ever dream of.
Guest: David Sharples
Guest E-mail: dgs32@ozemail.com.au
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: November 18, 2002
What I consider to be one of the great wrongs the Peebs practice is their negative attitude and criticism of all the Lord’s believers and servants outside their own system. It is extremely unfortunate that this is hammered into all the young who are borne into the system, which would be almost all of them, as little or no outsiders ever join them. Therefore they strongly believe, from as far back as they can remember, that all Christians outside themselves are not fit to be associated with. For any of them to attend an outside Christian church service of any kind could mean expulsion and loss of all family contact, which is part of the expulsion or ex-communication process. Since leaving the peebs I have had contact with many wonderful Christian people who serve and praise the Lord tirelessly, they can only be admired for their tireless enthusiasm in their service and the work they do. They are truly God’s servants. Some of these people I have had contact with were converted at the Billy Graham crusade some 40 years ago. When I was a peeb I can distinctly remember their scathing attacks on the crusade and Billy Graham’s preaching, claiming he was “of the devil” and anyone of their members caught attending such preachings would be severely dealt with. In another statement they claimed “Those who were supposedly converted at the crusade would have no depth, therefore it would only last a few weeks.” How wrong they were as history has shown. See Matthew 18:20.
Apart from the peebs the other groups who strongly criticized Billy Graham and the crusade were the atheists, unbelievers, agonistics, people who worshiped other gods, and the devil. All other Christian groups gave their support.
Guest: Robert and Margaret Pearse
Guest E-mail: r.pearse@virgin.net
City, Country: CRICH, Matlock, Derbyshire, ENGLAND
Date & Comments: November 18, 2002
at 10:42:37
Please note we have moved to Derbyshire. We wanted a smaller property with less garden and also to be closer to our daughter, son in law and grandchildren. Our new address is 'Arisaig', 2 Amber Hill, CRICH. Matlock, Derbyshire DE4 5BZ and tel. 01773 856996
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.wyenet.co.uk
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: November 18, 2002
“Also a Current Peeb” (November 15, 2002) is surely a spoof, writing with heavy irony. If he were genuine, then he would disclose his identity. He could do so without fear because, as he says, the Brethren tolerate free speech.
Guest: D
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: Baltimore USA
Date & Comments: November 18, 2002
To Anyone Who has any information:
I have married into a family that has many members in and out of this cult/group. My husband has been out for about 20 years. I have been very curious about practices and information involving the families located on the East Coast. (particularly New Jersey and Baltimore MD areas) My husband does share information where he himself is concerned, but recently, his brother has taken his own life and it has been said that it was largely due to the traumatic childhood and early adulthood in this cult. I have been told that he was contacted by members to try and get him to come back and it could be assumed that it helped push him over the edge. However, I do not wish to specifically blame anyone. I was very concerned about my brother-in-law before it happened and I want to try to find out a few things where his abuse is concerned. Suicide leaves those of us left behind with a terrible loss and confusion and that person's skeletons hanging in our own closets. I know what I might find out will never bring him back but I can't help wanting more information.
Thank You
Guest: Keith Taylor
Guest E-mail: servicemasternorthyork@sympatico.ca
City, Country: Markham, Ontario, Canada
Date & Comments: November 19, 2002
My wife and I had the pleasure of hearing Robin Mark in concert, at Queensway Cathedral in Toronto, Sunday night past. (For those who don't know, Robin is a Christian singer/songwriter from Belfast, N. Ireland.) Between songs he would pray, talk, joke etc. He poked fun at a few denominations including the EB's(nothing distasteful or mean). Now most Christians in N.America have never even heard of the Exclusives. I guess they have a higher profile in the U.K? Anyway, even after 20 years gone, it was nice to have a good laugh at myself.
Guest: Cam Elkins
Guest E-mail: mrelks@hotmail.com
City, Country: London
Date & Comments: November 19, 2002
Some of you know we have been planning to travel for some time now. At last I have kicked in my career in favour of seeing some new places and spending quality time with my g/f. On our way through Australia (Jan-April), NZ (May) & USA (Jun-Jul) if any one wants to meet up for a drink or two just drop me a line and we'll see what we can arrange!
Guest: Glenda Kilroe
Guest E-mail: santonika@hotmail.com
City, Country: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Date & Comments: November 19, 2002
To: "MY FAMILY MEMBER"
I am so glad you wrote a reply, I'm not quite sure who you are though. Grandma's death was very upsetting. I am so greatful that I had the chance to spend time with her and got to know her a bit before she passed away. I have been to see Grandpa a couple of times, but not much lately. I keep meaning to. We were all so happy to receive the anouncement of Liam's arrival. He's looks so cute, I bet he'll be just as beautiful as his mother :-) If you have access to e-mail I would love to hear from you. Don't worry I won't mention to Grandpa (or anyone else) about contacting me. I wouldn't want to lose the chance to get to know you. I hope to see another reply! Love, Glenda
Guest: A Current peeb
City, Country: Canada
Date & Comments: November 19, 2002
Holy Cow! what did I do to "piss" so many people off? Iam not a wicked and evil person. Iam nice, I did'nt say anything against Dick Whyman. Any how I guess I really should'nt be on here but it is very addicting
P.S Sorry if I said anything offenceive!
Guest: John McMullan
Guest E-mail: dove@oberon.ark.com
City, Country: Quadra Island, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: November 19, 2002
I have been reading many of the recent entries and I sense a lot of hurt among those who have suffered in EB. Most of my family are still in, in Ireland and England, and I have had no contact with them for over 40 years. I would dearly love to tell them about My Lord Jesus who set me free from my sin and provides me with such joy in serving Him. His invitation is still, "Come unto me all ye who are heavy laden and I will give you rest" We can only find rest in Him. If you need encouragement feel free to contact me as one of his many ambassadors. We all need to remember Phipp 3;13 and forget what is behind and press on..."
Guest: Tasmanian Ex Peeb
City, Country: Tasmania
Date & Comments: November 19, 2002
Dear Current Peeb,
There are a few points that need to be pointed out to you.
Guest: Oliver Bedford
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
To Current Peeb, Canada, Nov 19.
I think there is some confusion here. The "current peeb" (if indeed he/she is) whose comments caused all the fuss was the one from no known country whose email of Nov 14 lambasted Dick Wyman and called him disgusting. It seems to me that it wasn't you. So stop worrying about the replies !
Guest: Priscilla
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
I am very sorry that the message re anons came on the end of a message for someone else.
Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: johnweightman@johnweightman.charitydays.co.uk
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
To the still-in of Canada
I don't wish to be pedantic or petty but I wonder if you are going out of your way to make as many spelling and grammar mistakes as possible in the fewest number of words. Are you trying to make a point that lack of education is good?
To any who think that the new -or possibly interim- management is really more benign, just remember that any measure of freedom now being enjoyed is only to order.
Best wishes to all
John
Guest: Withheld (current glanton - peeb)
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
To current peeb from Canada,
I can't believe you are disgracing yourself and the Lord's People by swearing publicly on this guestbook, you should hang your head in shame and leave, I dont believe you are genuine for one moment.
There is such a lot of bitterness and hurt shown on this site, but please don't ever lose sight of the fact that the Lord is coming again, and how awful not to be right with Him when He returns. I appeal to each to make sure they are right with the Lord in these last and closing moments, whether "in" or "out", what matters is a relationship based on Christ's work at Calvary. A concerned Brother
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend, England
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
to Also a Current Peeb
Really enjoyed your upbeat remarks [Nov 15], it's nice to see someone's got a sense of humour.
You could be in trouble tho with '..we peebs are proud of...who we are'. When I was a member of your cult there were two scriptures in the bible [JND translation] saying 'God sets himself against the proud' [James 4:6 and 1Peter 5:5]. So have you deleted those scriptures now? or are the spin doctors still working on it? C'mon now you guys have plenty of imagination, I've always thought you could come up with an answer/b******t explanation for just about anything.
Be great to meet sometime, I'd love to buy you a drink.
Guest: margo
Guest E-mail: brown_eyes_38@hotmail.com
City, Country: Canada
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
I read this site often and sometimes I don't agree with everything said on this site but I keep coming back :).
I think I should enter my two cents but don 't. It is a great place to find old friends. What I wish to say is lighten up about the spelling your roots are showing (critical and being judgemental). Some people are just not great at spelling it could even be a second language to them. I actually think this is a young person so be gentle. What did you understand as a young person of the pain and suffering of others?
Sorry if I offended any one with my two cents. Keeping praying
Love Margo
Guest: J
Date & Comments: November 20, 2002
It's really funny how many peebs out there are using the computer, sending emails in the wee hours of the night. I actually correspond with a few peebs via email (hows that!).
I have seen people (usually the younger generation) running in and out of the church and I wonder if we should pity them. To some, they return due to reasons we all know, to others, they treat the church like a shelter. 'I'll go back when I'm broke and sneak out again' I should say this could be a lack of support for those who leave. For one, there hasn't been a well-established organisation to help these poor souls out and reprogramme them for our society, second, a lot of the younger peebs leave alone. Maybe someone should start a support group for people who wishes to leave. I have no doubt this cult will not stand as firmly as before. The world is moving too fast for them and it is too enticing for the young ones to check us out. As more and more peebs leave the church, the truth will slowly surface and all it takes is just time for them to explode. I definately can't wait for the day when families can reunite and equality and love to be realised by these people.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw .ca
City, Country: Victoria
Date & Comments: November 21, 2002
I think we are taking the entry of''current peeb'' too seriously, in all likelyhood it is a young person, and it is pretty common knowlege they use the excuse of''going to the library'' to use the computers available for public use to stay in touch with each other.And why shouldn't they?Obviously they have stumbled on this website and since it represents''forbidden fruit''they log on.
We should look at it this way- most of them have been fed a steady diet of how''evil'' we are[ everybody who leaves the pb's is deemed''evil''] and by reading the entries here they may get a chance to understand what they have been born into,and see for themselves what other folks have experienced and think.By reading these entries they will see what devastation the heirarchy have wrought on families,the separation from loved ones,and all the heartache. Maybe they will come to understand what real christianity is, and to search the scriptures for themselves.If they do, they will see the stark contrast with what they have experianced and been told.Hopefully they will begin to ask questions and demand answears, and not be put off with intimidation or threats.Hopefully they will become excercised to have a real and personel relationship with Jesus Christ.Once they do, their leaders will never hold them down, or stamp it out.The Pharisees tried that 2000 years ago, and the pharisees of christendom will have the same experiance-they cannot stand in the way of the Spirit of God
Let them stay,and let's treat them gently. We were there once, and we represent the very few people who can understand where they are coming from.Keep the door open.
Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: johnweightman@johnweightman.charitydays.co.uk
Date & Comments: November 21, 2002
I assume that Margo is referring to my recent posting made in reply to a current peeb of Canada.
Firstly, I was assuming that this current peeb was the one who in an earlier entry described their country as "held." ( If I am wrong, I apologise.) I understand that if they are still in they will feel the need to remain anonymous, although this does not square with the freedom they claim to have. Secondly, the real object of my entry was not so much the faulty spelling as the unpleasantness of the content. I should have made that clear and regret that I resorted to sarcasm. I think, however, that there are many of us who, whilst hoping and praying that reading the vast majority of entries on this site will open the eyes of any still-in EB's, really fear that they- the "still-ins" -are largely really merely voyeurs, who still can and do cause the deepest grief and heartache to the thousands whose lives have been blighted by their connections with EB's. To the very true point made that I,too, was once as guilty as they, I close with the same line as my friend Victor Congdon -hope you don't mind, Vic- Only by grace
My best wishes to all,
John
Guest: Russ McDonald
Guest E-mail: Russ.mcdonald@gems2.gov.bc.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC Canada
Date & Comments: November 21, 2002
I would like to echo Oliver's Nov. 20 comments regarding some confusion, and Margo's Nov. 20 comments regarding being critical and judgemental:
To current peeb, Canada - no, you are not a wicked or evil person; please don't go away. Stay and let us know how it is going for you. There are many of us that care about you and understand how it is.
Margo, your "two-cents" worth has much value. This site is a great place to meet old friends, and to make new ones too. Yes, gentleness and kindness is the way to go. No, I was not offended by your remarks, I think they model a caring perspective.
To Guest J: Yes I think we should feel for those people that are pushed and pulled by the doctrine of their group. And yes I think a support group is a wonderful idea. I know for a fact that there are individuals that help as much as they can; there are the people of the "EB Railroad" (at this site) and others too that are involved privately. Could we do more? I hope we can... Are there others with ideas and resources?
Regards, Russ
Guest: B.S
City, Country: United Kingdom
Date & Comments: November 22, 2002
Sorry I cannot give credit where credit is due, but hope whoever wrote the following helpful poem on the subject of spelling does not object to me passing it on. It uses English (British) spelling!
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore too long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore yore pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
Slightly more seriously - lets drop the criticism and not discourage those who may have difficulty with spelling (for whatever reason including dislexia) from expressing themselves here. We need to hear from you.
Guest: I am in the Exclusives in Nambour, Australia
City, Country: Nambour / Woombye, Australia
Date & Comments: November 23, 2002
What an idiot Hales is!
There is so many of us using Computers, watching T.V, our family is in the Exclusives in Woombye, Australia and we own a T.V. We hide it very very well and put our antenna in the ceiling instead of outside. We know of many many other families still in who have Television's and radio's. My parents bought our first CD Stero player last week, purchased by our very secretative neighbours. Hales just does'nt get it, he can't control everyone. Half the Church is running wild and there is nothing he can do about it! To the company monitoring this site for Hales, you obviousley have'nt been in a CULT before! I will be continuously leaking information to Dick on inside affairs in the Exclusive Church. To the person who is after there partner dragged back into the Exclusives who is from BEACONSFIELD / BERWICK VICTORIA, contact A Current Affair News in Australia. They will most likely investigate the Exclusives for you. The Exclusives will hate the media attention and might cave in to you. Worth a try, their web address is, www.ninemsn.com.au/aca
To all the members still in on this site See you in Church. And see you in December Mr Hales.
Guest: Rachel Waddilove
Guest E-mail: rmwaddi@yahoo.co.uk
City, Country: Exeter, Devon. U.K.
Date & Comments: November 23, 2002
I was bought up with the exclusive brethren, my parents left in 1961. My mother was a Diplock and My Father is Donald Lynes. I live near Exeter and would be delighted to help anyone in the west country who has left the brethren and is wanting help and friendship.
Guest: Withheld
Guest E-mail: dmacfd@sympatico.ca
City, Country: Barrie. Ontario Canada
Date & Comments: November 23, 2002
I am a born again Christian who gathers to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. However I have many family relatives who are exclusive in their doctrine, known as the Taylor party. They are very legal in their views so much so that they seldom manifest the life of Christ in their lives. They are known to be drunk, they buy whiskey at the local store and are known for their consummstion of strong drink. They will not even speak to me if I meet them in the mall and will not even stop to join me in a cup of coffee. One of their leaders was James Taylor known to one of my near friends. Mr Taylor was found at one time in bed with another lady and as far as known went straight to hell when he died.
Guest: Sydney A. Ward Jnr.
Guest E-mail: sidco45@hotmail.com
City, Country: 5 Church Street, Montego Bay, Jamaica, W.I.
Date & Comments: November 23, 2002
Guest: Paul G Ward
Guest E-mail: paulgward@compuserve.com
City, Country: Portsmouth, England
Date & Comments: November 24, 2002
Former locality: Portsmouth, England
When left: 1971
Now living in New York, although frequently visiting my parents, Mervyn and Joy Ward who left in 1976 and still live in the house in which I grew up.
Guest: Current EB
City, Country: Western NSW
Date & Comments: November 25, 2002
This is an awesome site. I have been following it for some time now.
I would love to leave this CULT but feel I need more support than what I have got at the moment.
What current EB from Nambour says is very true. The church is totally divided at the moment.
Hales will never have any control over my life nor will any CULT.
Keep up the great work Dick.
Guest: nonnie
Date & Comments: November 25, 2002
Many years ago I lived in Nambour and was always amazed at the drabness of dress and the long faces of the women with the scarves on. I wondered and felt so sorry for them. I am therefore equally amazed to read the entry from the still in exclusive from Woombye. These people were so conservative then, and now they are hiding TV's and aerials in their house. Sorry, but you are still controlled by the man you call an idiot. The Bible teaches that Control and the spirit of intimidation (and rebellion) are witchcraft, so my advise to you is, don't be intimidated and controlled, but if you want to get a TV, DVD,Stereo or computer, go buy your own, and hold your head high, knowing these things are not sinful, but only tools to be used wisely and enjoyed. How can you freely enjoy these things in your own home while all the time someone has to listen for a knock on the door, so that you won't be found out? I can't understand if you hate the system that much that you keep going to the meetings, and at the same time undermine them by telling on them. I am not an EB and never have been (but am surrounded by them every day)so totally sympathise with all you people have to endure and do without, but there is a way out if you have the courage. Take on the words that were spoken to Joshua..Be bold, and of a good courage, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.
Guest: Marty Lewis
Guest E-mail: martythelewis@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, Ontario, Can
Date & Comments: November 25, 2002
Hi all, obviously, a lot of people still in fellowship check out this site; so this is for you. I left about 7 years ago, I'm 22 now and the Lord has brought me a long way. Happy? I realize now I didn't even know what happiness was!! The freedom to live a life according to God's Word and His plan, and having Christ as the ONLY mediator between God and myself - instead of a mere man - is such a beautiful thing! Getting up and leaving I know is a huge mountain to climb, but God will see you through. Why waste your whole life accomplishing nothing for the Kingdom of God?! What they say is not true; turning to 'worldy ways' is not the only other option to being in the Peebs. Please, please, please e-mail me. Even if you must remain anonymous. In Christ, Marty
Guest: J
Guest E-mail: peebsaver@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: November 26, 2002
To Russ: I am in fact working on a support plan here. Will be implementing it once I return to Australia and get my funding. Things I feel most important will have to be emotional and financial support for these people. I plan to build a home for mainly orphans with govt fundings but also discreetly housing runaway peebs. We need the support of the govt otherwise it will be a pain with the peebs knocking on our door everyday. An idea I have is to expand my business in my current location and hire runaways to work here so the peebs cannot track them down. I hope God helps me with this as it will cost a lot of money.
To the peeb in Nambour: As I said earlier, the world is moving too fast for them and I believe everything's turned a blind eye at the moment with the hope that more ex-peebs will return with the 'relaxed' rules. The peeb I have been corresponding via email with gets permission from her parents to use the internet in hope that she will stay at home. These people will do anything to keep people from running away.
To a current peeb (Western NSW): If you feel you require more support, email me or people from the EB Railroad. There are plenty of people in Western NSW who can help you although please be cautious when exchanging information.
To all: I just received a piece of shocking news on the tactics the peebs are using to get people back now. I can't disclose them at the moment but please be on guard. To those who have received calls from the peebs, I urge you to be strong and firm with your decisions and treasure the life you have. It totally disgusted me to know what these people have in their sleeves.
Guest: Nonnie - From November 25th
City, Country: Woombye, Nambour Australia
Date & Comments: November 26, 2002
To the Nonnie author of November 25th,
You tell me to be proud and hold my head high now that I have a T.V, AND if I hate the Church that much, why do I keep going to the meetings. Well it is so obvious that you have not been a member of the Exclusives. If the shoe was on the other foot would you give up your entire family? Our family has plans in leaving the cult but we are all doing it together. It is very easy for people to say do this and do that, when they haven't even been in the Exclusives at all. Fair enough they might know people in it, but that is totally different than being in it!!!
Guest: Laurie Twinam
Guest E-mail: Laurie@twinam.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Sevenoaks, Kent, UK
Date & Comments: November 26, 2002
Just a few words of advice from one who was once in the Taylor brethren and is very much concerned for those visiting this site who are still caught up in that set-up, where they were born and bred.
It is a great mercy from God when you first realise without a doubt that you are trapped in a regime which is now only a shadow and a sham of real Christianity. You are being cheated and deprived of the real thing. So-called leaders have now taken the place which belongs to Jesus Christ alone.
Jesus is not just a figure in history, but the greatest Man alive. Not only is He is very much alive - He is the great Redeemer and Liberator. If you depend only on Him, He will become the very centre of your life, and He will set you free from all sin, and from all the distortions and hindrances which have deceived and bound you hitherto. A true Christian is no longer a slave. He will give you courage to speak up for the honour of Jesus Christ, and He will lead you out from all that dishonours Him. If you are thrown out for your witness, you will find yourself in His company – what better?
If I can help you in any way, please make contact.
Guest: James Smith
Guest E-mail: smithy1900@hotmail.com
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
I used to work with the Exclusives and found them really interesting and had some really good conversations with them....I would like to know some of the reasons behind their beliefs....can anyone please give me a list or something? Thank you.
James.
Guest: nonnie
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
Dear Peeb still in Nambour,
I apologise if I offended you by my words. I did not say for you to be proud [that terrible word! :)] and I do have some idea about cults, as 2 of my family members were in cults for years, and it took years for them to leave with heartache for them and the rest of our family for years. Also when I said I am surrounded by EB's this is literally so as I am employed by them. I hear, and I see...past the veneer. They are good people, but bound by a set of very stupid rules, that stifle their emotions towards each other and outsiders. I do feel very much for you, and it would be terrible to have to leave your friends and family and never see them again. This in itself is a bondage, because that which you can't have you want all the more. Many non EB's move away from family and friends and may only see them once in many years, but because they are free to see or not see them there is not as much heart ache as when it is forbidden. We all need freedom of choice, and I hope and pray you and your family will soon be able to see your way clear to make that very big step to freedom. I do not sit in judgement of you, be assured of that. God bless you and I know many are praying for you.
Guest: J (Peeb Saver)
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
To Nonnie and all: Absolutely no one can understand and feel how this cult works unless you are in it yourself. For outsiders, they can only see the physical posession the EBs have on its people. For us, it is a physical+emotional+mental posession. It is a control over your total mind and to break free will take a really strong mind to do so, not to say months of plannings. By the way, their rules are not in anyway 'stupid'. In fact they are one of the smartest systems around that is so well catered to totally control one. There is a reason behind all their rules and if you look at it from an un-religious point of view, you will see it. They merely used God's words as the sheep's skin. How else can these people become so financially powerful and are capable of ruining people's life without paying a price.
To James: A lot of people find the EBs interesting conversationalist. It is no surprise because you are talking to someone from 'another world'. A very bad analogy I can come up with (I apologise but I can't think of any good ones) will be if you visit an African Tribe in the Amazon and if you understand their language, you will find it interesting talking to them. This is exactly the case. To you, they might seem sincere in talking to you but it is always good to know that in their eyes, you are just a 'worldly' person.
Guest: J
Guest E-mail: peebsaver@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
To Dick and all: Would it be a good idea to start a chatroom here? In my experience time plays a crucial part and emails might take some time before a respond is received. A chatroom will be a good place to get instant advice especially for current peebs who rarely have a chance to check their mail. To protect the room, members can be registered with their background verified (just like in the eb railroad) and non-members can sign on as 'Guest'. I personally leave this website on whenever I am on the internet and check for updates all the time and I believe a lot of people a lot of people are doing it too. Hope this is a good suggestion.
Guest: Cindel
City, Country: Seattle, WA
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
I surfed onto a great cult information and help page called myownmind.com - it is really cool. You should check it out. If you have a story, they will help you share it with the world by posting it on their site.
http://www.MyOwnmind.com
Enjoy.
Let them know you visited and what you think of their site and their EB information.
Guest: JT
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
I teach an exclusive brethren child in my class. I am concerned about his exclusion from class activities, eg music assembly IT etc. Any ideas how we can stop him feeling so left out?
Guest: B&E
Guest E-mail: bbhenson1@optusnet.com.au
City, Country: Ipswich, Australia.
Date & Comments: November 27, 2002
To the "Still Ins" Nambour & West N.S.W.
Hi There!
Would love to hear from you. You will know us. Could even be related! Mobile No. 0414 802 754. or use the internet address. We are walking with the Lord & appreciate your feelings. We left Brisbane 16 years ago. Love you in Christ, B&E.
Guest: Robert Narboe
Guest E-mail: bnarboe@aol.com
City, Country: Germany
Date & Comments: November 28, 2002
My name is Bob Narboe retired military U:S: army living in Germany. I have a saved German wife and we meet in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you for your site, we are new to the brethren we have been meeting at home for two years now, Mat 18:20. God Bless you, Gal 5:1 AV 1611 sinners saved by Grace. If any one would care to write we would be bless. Brother Bob
Guest: Bruised Hells
Date & Comments: November 28, 2002
I am glad I am not from this cult although I pity those people in it. As an outsider, it is so darn obvious to me what this is all about. This is merely one man trying to act god. It is the pyramid selling of religion. Just another very successful religious scam.
http://www.cultcounselling.org has a list of definitions of cults and this 'church group' fits all the bill. If God is truly all compassionate and Jesus is our saviour, HE will save as much people as HE can (the majority). Why do they think they are so special and 'exclusive'. Its sad that these people are more willing to trust one man than the world.
Just a word to any Brethrens looking here. GOD made all man fair and equal. There is no such thing as an 'elected vessel'. Even the pope achieved his status through grace and compassion. It takes hard work, sacrifice, and utmost compassion and devotion to become a spiritual person, not just merely 'elected' by your own father or other humans. And all man sin, there is no one who is 'unable to sin'! An action of sin is sin! What nonsense is 'That was an ambush' , 'He is unable to sin', 'He is pure'. So having a naked wife of another man under the blanket is not sin and is a pure act and is seen as a pure act of GOD?!?! So what sort of ambush was that? If it was an ambush, well then he accepted the ambush and thus sinned. I personally feel that is just so RUDE and DOWNGRADING for JESUS CHRIST.
Guest: Ngaire Thomas
Guest E-mail: Ngaire-Maz@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Palmerston North New Zealand
Date & Comments: November 28, 2002
When faced with the prospect of a visit from my natural brother accompanied by another Brother, I was surprised to find that I had a reoccurrence of that dreadful feeling of fear, intimidation and trepidation. I would have thought that after 28 years I could handle a situation like this with the strength, confidence, and ease which is now part of my life. But No, I felt a knot in the pit of my stomach and trembled at the thought of being 'interigated' once again, even if they were coming to say they were sorry. I asked myself why they were making this visit and realised that there was very little in it for me and lots of warm fuzzies for them. I decided to write and tell them not to come. I would dearly love to turn the tables and tell my brother that with all his musical and artistic talents there is a place for him on the outside.
Guest: Tim Mounter
Guest E-mail: timmounter(hotmail)
City, Country: Peterborough U.K. - Class of 85
Date & Comments: November 29, 2002
It's been a good couple of years since I last signed in here, myself and 2 of my (blood) brothers have just received our seperate summonses for the re-enrollment program, each from someone with a particular history with ourselves - a letter from my ex-boss for me, a phone call from a (brethren) brother who 'looked after' my brother David while my parents were 'shut up' and a phone call to my brother John also from one of the lads (now grown up and presumably fully fledged priest) from a family where he lived at the same time. It is very satisfying to know that this guest book is here to put us in the picture of what is going on. However, good as my bible training was, I've forgotten where certain things are and I need the help of others in here in preparation for my big meeting day. I plan to bring out my black bible from the attic with gold embossed T.I.M. on it and quote that bit they read at weddings, something like 'what God hath put together let no man put asunder' It must be in there somewhere. Then I would say unto them 'if there is a God is there anything more obviously put together by Him than parents with a child?' I read here that they are apologising for the way people were withdrawn from, but I miss the point, surely if you are sorry for something and you can change it why not change it. The way I see it they are encouraging you to go back, but sure as eggs is eggs, if I went back (don't worry, hypothetical) and slept with a woman out of wedlock again I would be treated exactly the same. Then again perhaps I could go back in and still visit my out family and friends on the pretence of recruiting them back, sorry -slip of the keyboard 'apologising for the way they were treated' - Worth a thought? Sorry Chas that beer would be out of the question.
Personal note to Dan or Ruth (blood bretheren) if you do manage to read this guestbook we'd all love to hear from you. I know you're taught that happiness isn't the most important thing in life but I sincerely hope that you are both happy in your chosen way. Leaving you two and Mum and Dad was the hardest thing about leaving the peebs for me and still is, but apart from that I am doing OK. The Peebs know this about us ex's and it is the only weapon they have left to entice the weak back in, they are forcing people to remake a very painful decision, purely in the interest of boosting numbers. This amounts to mental torture, not interest in saving souls as they would have us believe. The bible teaches compassion, having compassion does not include abuse - mental or physical. I really wish that you could experience what I've experienced since I left but the main thing I have learnt is that there is about the same ratio of good / evil people in the world as there is in the peebs, and it is not for any person or persons other than yourself to decide which is which, and who you should or should not have fellowship with. Love you both and miss you always. Tim
Guest: Melissa Kirk
Guest E-mail: melissa @kirk.zzn.com
City, Country: Toronto, Canada
Date & Comments: November 29, 2002
To: Judy Crutch,
You took the words right out of my mouth, that's exactly the way I feel. Many of my family members ask me, "why does it bother you, you can't even remember when we were in". But it does. There is a piece missing - a large piece. I don't understand, and yet somehow I think I can reason with them. My family doesn't stop me, but they warn me that it will be painful. And of course because I don't understand but think I do, I talk to them (my relatives that are in) anyway and the rejection hurts.
Some people say they will never forget, but I'm having trouble just with the forgiving part. My childhood fantasy of a big happy reunion is more of a joke now. My only solace is that my true family are the ones that stand beside me every day and love me for who I am, regardless of what I believe in. Maybe that's what God is trying to teach me, the hard way. But it still hurts.
Guest: Peter and Rachel McCormack
Guest E-mail: pjmccormack20@hotmail.com
City, Country: Belfast, N Ireland
Date & Comments: November 29, 2002
just updating the e-mail address.
Peter, Left in 1983, Belfast, and wife Rachel (Albon) ex Portsmouth, UK.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria
Date & Comments: November 29, 2002
A very effective way to deal with any PB's is, to demand they verify any statement by "show me where it says that in the scriptures?" They are very willing to quote ministry, or say "this is what we hold the truth to be" but when handed a bible and asked to, as the Bareans did "to search the scriptures to see if these things were so" they stumble and stammer around with little to say.
Their main claim is they are "separating from evil" but in actual fact and practice they treat all believers as "evil" and in doing so are despising the work of God in the people they are treating as"evil. I can well leave whatever they have done to me- they have the Lord to answer to in despising His own. Scripture warns us against doing this. In the apostle Peter's dream, he was specifically warned to "not make common that which I have cleansed"
In Victoria, we once had a brother and his wife bring their 3 yearold grandchild to a "tea meeting" and we told them to take the child away, because we could not eat with her, on the grounds the child would contaminate the brethren. I hope to have the opportunity to bring that incident up with them, and ask them about what the Lord said about offending little ones" it would be better a millstone be hanged about their neck and be cast into the sea, than offend one of these little ones"
I sincerely believe we should welcome the opportunity to make contact with these folks, and use it as an occasion to witness to them. They are quite thrown off guard with this, believing we are all "bitter" and sunk into the depths of sin. They are thrown quite off balance when asked about their personal relations with the Lord, and how are they getting on in their souls....The funny thing is, I used to be quite intimidated by them, but when you actually get a chance to challenge them, one on one, they are quite pathetic, with very little to say. Sad, really.
Guest: Martyn Ricketts
City, Country: Evesham, Worcestershire UK
Date & Comments: November 29, 2002
Hi
Just wondering if anyone knows of or has heard of a family that used to live in Finchley/Barnet area in North London. The are relatives of my mother Joyce Ricketts of Evesham.
The lady is my mother's sister, Mirriam Porter (nee Chinn) who married Geoffrey Porter. Mirriam Porter is my Aunty and she had a daughter Madaline who married somone from France. Geoffrey Porter also had a daughter from his first marriage called Rosemary who married Headley Temple.
As far as I know they are all still with the Tayor Brethren though I understand Geoffrey Porter has passed away.
If anyone has any information of these people please can you let me know as we have never spoken to them since 1970.
My mother who is now 80 would love to hear about them. Her sister Mirriam must be about 90 if she is still alive.
Many thanks
God bless
Martyn Ricketts
Guest: Steve Smith
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: November 29, 2002
A year or so ago, Stephen Hales was withdrawn from for driving a minibus with children whilst under the influence of alcohol (he had a long term problem). Does anyone know whether his brother has brought him back?
Guest: Oliver Bedford
Guest E-mail: Suppressed
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: November 30, 2002
To Tim, 29 November
I think the verse you're looking for is Mark's gospel, chapter 10 verse 9: "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder", a principle that the Jims have been driving a bus through for the last 40 years.
Cheers
Oliver
Guest: Hazel Silcock nee Shimwell
Guest E-mail: Hazel@silcockfamily.freeserve.co.uk
City, Country: Plymouth, UK
Date & Comments: November 30, 2002
Guest: Stephen Rodgers
Guest E-mail: justinscifiction@aol.com.au
Date & Comments: November 30, 2002