This page contains entries 1151 through current in the guestbook. Entries were made after June 26, 2002.
These names and addresses are posted to enable people to contact friends and loved ones. Please do not exploit this information for commercial purposes.
Guest: nonnie
City, Country: anonshire
Date & Comments: June 27, 2002
are credit cards now allowed?
eftpos terminals? what about fax machines and computers? freedom at last?
Guest: Gabriel Pino
Guest E-mail: skylink02@hotmail.com
City, Country: Rosario, ARGENTINA
Date & Comments: June 27, 2002
Hi everyone !
Regarding Dick's comments dated last June 17 2002 about the EB's "apparently new relaxed regimes", I'd like to add that a friend of mine -who is a former member- told me that he was also contacted by his father who invited him to come back to the meetings since "some new changes took place..." On the other hand, women are no longer forced to wear a scarf whenever they go out.
Some pets like cats and fish are allowed now. But dogs aren't !!! (why???)
Greetings,
GABRIEL
Guest: Susan Bell
Guest E-mail: braidlab@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: June 28, 2002
Left EB's in 1973
Would be interested in any information on Rosalind and David Haughton of Coventry, currently in EB's.
Guest: Bradley McCallum
Guest E-mail: knighthighlander@hotmail.com
City, Country: Chicago, IL, USA
Date & Comments: June 29, 2002
Just a note to say that there is an interesting article in Time magazine, July 1 edition, that contains a segment about JND.
I would love to hear from anyone visiting Chicago.
Trust that all are well,
Bradley McCallum
Guest: Tina Kelberman
Guest E-mail: tinycatty@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: June 30, 2002
I am visiting this page for a different purpose. I had recently learnt that a man, whom I was seeing, had decided to go back into the sect in St Albans after 5 years of leaving them in 1997. His name is Quentin Wiltshire. His large circle of friends, especially his best friend David were very upset to learn of his decision to go back to his family, whom he had missed. They do not think bad of you and miss you a lot. You are more popular than you thought you are. I hope you have made the right decision because you do not deserve to have all these problems that you had. You are a wonderful man with good morals. I truly hope you are happy back with your family. I miss you so much and hope to see you soon.
Guest: Lucy Fidler
Guest E-mail: lucy_marquart@hotmail.com
City, Country: currently Glasgow, Scotland, prev. Southampton, England
Date & Comments: July 1, 2002
Hi, I left about 5 years ago and have since gone through affairs, divorce and am currently an unemployed single parent! I have struggled. I have felt alone. I have felt extremely betrayed. But I have found my SOULMATE, an American who has helped restore my faith in humanity and more importantly - in myself, and has helped me begin to have faith in the Lord again. For everyone out there who is struggling, things will get better. Be strong.
Guest: Roy Pursey
City, Country: London UK
Date & Comments: July 1, 2002
I have met a few Exclusive brethren in my working life - as they are quite successful business people. However, reading the guest book I can see that they create a great deal of misery for many people, especially in regard to family relationships.
What on earth makes people believe the daft ideas of a lunatic priest from the early 1800's.?
Guest: Valerie Waxman
City, Country: Gold coast Queensland
Date & Comments: July 2, 2002
Guest: Joyce Waxman nee Hyslop
Guest E-mail: joycemay28@hotmail.com
City, Country: Gold Coast Queensland
Date & Comments: July 2, 2002
Guest: Greg Lichi
Date & Comments: July 2, 2002
Guest: Jim Garvie
Guest E-mail: jimgarvie66@hotmail.com
City, Country: Kingston England
Date & Comments: July 3, 2002
I left in 89, I have gone through a lot of stuff, but the faith I had has always been there. I was the only one of my family to leave, so I had no support of my family. All the things that went wrong I assumed it was all down to me, I lost my house, my job-but worst of all I lost myself. Now after 13 years they have contacted me, I went to see them, they told me that I [was] wrongly treated, and have been told that the people who dealt with me have been chucked out. Where do I go from here? I would like to see my parents, and my sister and brothers, and their kids, but at what price? Although they apologised, they still think they are right, there is no discussion. I said what is the difference between brethren and terrorists, sometimes you can negotiate with terrorists! I would like comments please. All the best
Jim
jimgarvie66@hotmail.com
Guest: Geoff Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@gardinerg.freeserve.co.uk
City, Country: Birmingham, UK
Date & Comments: July 5, 2002
'The EB leaders have chalked up a lot of bad Karma'. How true that is.
Guest: Greg Currie
Guest E-mail: greg@nobodydoesitbetter.co.nz
City, Country: Wellington - New Zealand
Date & Comments: July 5, 2002
Hi everybody - I am Greg Currie aged 37 years (son of Carl and Jean Currie). I married Wendy Harrison (Daughter of Charles and Betty Harrisson) of Palmerston North NZ in November 1983 and was kicked out of the Brethren 3 times in our first 5 years of marriage - so we stayed out in July of 1988 - after much soul seraching and a heap of UNlearning Wendy and I have seperated and divorced - both have new partners (infact - fiances') and our 3 wonderful children are Jake 18, Marianne 16, and Tina 14 who live either with me or Wendy depending on schooling, work circumstances etc. My fiance's name is Jo Plumtree and we hope to marry later this year (2002). I have to say - I have a strong judgement of the EB's and would love to talk to anybody involved or who use to be - look froward to hearing from any of you soon!
Guest: Priscilla Buckland
Guest E-mail: heiress@bigpond.com
City, Country: Parkes Australia
Date & Comments: July 6, 2002
Hi to all out there, maybe some of you are my relatives. I was a Stead, Alan Stead's daughter. My Dad & Mum are both with the Lord and my Brother Barry is still in the brethren and consequently had nothing to do with me. Love to hear from someone. Praise God for his loving kindness.
Priscilla
Guest: Cult Counseling America
Guest E-mail: Office@myownmind.com
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: July 7, 2002
Please visit www.MyOwnMind.com
We would like feedback.
Share your story there with others. Help prevent others from being entraped by the Brethren.
Great site here!
Keep up the good work.
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria
Date & Comments: July 8, 2002
Historically most cults, or cult like groups, implode rather than are overcome by outside influence. Nobody can predict what the eventual outcome of "THE BRETHREN" will be, but typically they will fall apart, or fracture into splinter groups and drift off into irrelevancy. I really bleed for the victims of this pride based man made ministry, one reads of personal disasters, divorces, estrangements, loss of family and friends and all the attendant heartache. One hopes each individual examines their own faith and comes to terms with it. We were so dreadfully lead astray, under the missrepresentation of the gospel.
The current "invitation to return" is not based on any repentance, admition of guilt or wrongdoing on their part. They cannot admit failure, for the simple reason they believe their "leaders" are in direct communication with devine persons and their teachings are put on par with scripture. I hate to call it heresy but it has all the charactorics of it. The most they will ever admit to is "the Lord has turned a corner" or the "Spirit isn't stressing that anymore".
If it hadn't caused so much grief and heart ache, it would almost be comical.
The only thing anyone can put their trust and faith in is the Lord, as all human institutions can and will fail, and we need to recognise that.
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: July 8, 2002
The peebs claim their meeting rooms are "Places of Public Religious Worship", but you can't just walk in off the street; you have to be vetted by the priests and attend by prior appointment. To my mind this makes them places of private, not public, worship. In the taxi trade there is a clear legal distinction between public hire (straight off the street or a taxi rank) and private hire which MUST involve a prior booking. If the peebs meetings are private how can they righteously have paid no rates on their rooms ever since they started?
Guest: S
Guest E-mail: Suppressed
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: July 9, 2002
Re Jim Garvie's message.
Dear Jim
I read this book often, and rarely respond, but your entry hit home. Have been out a little less time than you, but left on my own at 15, so know the pain, rejection but also excitement that comes with it.
Got a ‘phone call from my Dad at work about 3 months ago. First time in 10 years he has called me, practically fell off the chair! Like everyone else, they have decided that I was wrongly treated. Went and saw my brothers and sister, they offered to let me see my cousin, and was initially quite excited. But despite the apparent turn round, I have been left in no doubt that regardless of whose fault it was I left, (I was a 15 year old girl) I remain out of fellowship, and therefore must abide by all the restraints that come with it. It is by the grace of Mr Hales (Bruce) that contact has been allowed.
As with everyone else, I found it a inordinately arrogant and difficult message to take. Quite simply, "we are awfully sorry that you may have been kicked out wrongly, and humbled by the negative impact on your life, but now we would like you to come back to the one perfect assembly where you were put in the sovereignty of God etc etc”. They regaled many stories of people who have been returning after 30, 40 years. They referred a lot to one local brother who has been restored to his family at the age of 92, after being out for 30 years. He was, as with many, put out wrongly. They appeared to have no comprehension of what impact they may have had on his life, or the fact that he had spent 30 years on his own. When raised this point, my brother merely conceded that he found it INTERESTING, and not something that he had thought about.
I questioned that for every person who had returned, how many more were out? A great happy, deal living full and rich lives, but also those alone, many with psychological issues, those who have taken their lives, or died without seeing their children grow up. And how, in the perfect assembly, with a leader who is personified by the Holy Sprit, a direct continuation of Paul, did this ever take place? It was another view point they found interesting, and quite simply explained:
The level that they have been brainwashed to is frightening, and in honesty I found it impossible to have a conversation with my two very intelligent older brothers, because of the apparent difficulty they have to communicate in anything except regurgitated sentences.
We do not know the good that it will do, and I am ever hopeful that the more my family realise that I am happy, loved and almost normal, they will see there is hope for them. But as you said, we cannot expect anything to have really changed. You will still be the one to be pitied, to be implored to, fundamentally in the wrong place. They will attempt to wean out all that has gone wrong, as evidence that if in the brethren all would be OK. My brother even admitted that the only reason they were seeing me was that in absence of my having much faith in my father, he had been instructed to USE the other children to get me home. I suggested that it would be nice if they wanted to see me to get to know me, see who I was, and possibly even find out a little about me. It seemed a concept that they were not only completely alien to, but had no idea how to process. After all we must not forget that we are out of fellowship. I have stopped seeing them, it just was not [worth] the price of being told quite harshly again that I was not worth knowing unless I was home. We are free, and maybe this is away of setting ourselves free again.
Really hope you make a decision that you have peace with, and remember that you are not alone in this, none of us are.
take care
S
Guest: Gatecrasher
Guest E-mail: meeting-rooms@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Worcestershire
Date & Comments: July 9, 2002
In response to Gerard Rayments comment regarding the Meeting Rooms being registered as places of public worship, is it not to do with the rate free status afforded them. They should make it clear one way or the other. If truly public they could remain rate free but if they wish to have the privacy of remaining private they should bite the bullet and pay the rates. Sounds fair to me. Quite why anyone would want to return to one I do not quite know but nowt as starnge as folk. Perhaps we should all turn up en mass one day and see what they do. Would be quite a giggle.
What would they do? Phone for the Police on their mobile phones that they have not got? On what grounds? We could always take a mobile phone in with us.
Guest: Peter M Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: July 10, 2002
As I said, watching the antics and convoluted rational of the pb's would be a joke if they hadn't hurt so many people with their self serving dogmas. Once serving the Lord is overshadowed by pride and power, and the scriptures take back seat to "ministry" then anything goes, there is no standard, except whatever the so called "elect vessel" chooses to propound for the momment [the current voice of the Spirit]. Joseph Stalin defined "truth" as being "whatever is good for the people"
I hope those chucked out and cut off will turn to the scriptures for guidance and comfort- the Lord hasn't left you, He never will, even if we turn our back [hopefully temporarily] on Him. And one final comment- the pb's can't put anyone "out of fellowship"- there is only one fellowship- that of God's Son, our Lord Jesus Christ-and that takes in every blood bought saint, no matter where they fellowship.
Guest: Elizabeth Bunting
Guest E-mail: dbunting@shaw.ca
City, Country: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Date & Comments: July 10, 2002
Since about one year ago, I have been reading all the contributions from ex-EB's. In reading John Nelson Darby's life and all the criticisms, etc. of him -- I really do not see JND's vision was the same as what these Exclusive Brethren -- so called have become.
John Nelson Darby really loved Jesus. When you read his hymns and his attitude towards others you could not deny that he really loved Jesus. It is very sad that the EB's have become this terrible introverted sect that they are. In our efforts to remove ourselves from evil, we have removed ourselves from everybody to whom the Lord has commanded us to preach the gospel.
It is impossible to separate ourselves completely from evil until we get into the eternal state. Our ultimate salvation "saved from the presence of sin." When we confine ourselves into a certain culture of human beings who always sin being part of the human condition, we are still not separated from evil.
Our ultimate separation from evil will be when we reach the eternal state -- "Saved from the Presence of Sin" which will be upon our death our when the Lord returns.
Thanks for all the contributions. It has been very illuminating and humbling an experience as to how much we must depend upon the Lord to separate us from the "Power of Sin", i.e., "Let not sin reign in your mortal bodies, etc."
Yours through grace,
Beth
Guest: Darren Hughes
Guest E-mail: darren.hughes@orange.co.uk
City, Country: Saul, England. Formerly of Calne ( Chippenham )
Date & Comments: July 9, 2002
Having left of my own accord in 1990 I was suprised when speaking to my Father to also be told that people were returning and that there was still a place for me.
Having a fairly good rapport with my parents they now accept the way that I want to live my life, but still insisted that I could be forgiven.
I explained that I haven't done anything wrong and left of my own back, to which they didn't have much to say !
Having said that, I love my family dearly and always ring every couiple of months to check they are ok.
Guest: Deane Butcher
Guest E-mail: kymwilliams@chariot.net.au
City, Country: Adelaide, Australia
Date & Comments: July 11, 2002
"The Lord has turned a corner"?
He's been doing one U turn after another lately!
Guest: Karen Johnson
Guest E-mail: craig.kcf@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Westport, New Zealand (ex Auckland 1994)
Date & Comments: July 11, 2002
Guest: Charles Turner
Guest E-mail: charlesandrewturner@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: July 11, 2002
Fantastic articulation of what’s been happening to all of us from guest ‘S’. If we were ever in doubt of brainwashing, now we should have no doubt.
Their brainwashing extends to genuine humility in the ‘putting things right’ exercise. But when we venture to suggest that maybe all was not right with the brethren for this mass apology to be going on, their pre –conditioned programming detects we are bitter, it quickly concludes that they are lucky to have such light and we are the dodgy ones, their programming then turns them to sorrow as to ‘our state.’ The fact that they needlessly tore families apart is deleted from their system (it bears no relevance) and their convictions of their rightful position increases.
Many of us left as teenagers and had tremendous challenges, many of which are documented on this site. But we had the strength of character to pull through, some for better, some for worse. Virtually all of us struggled financially.
So isn’t it time that a more robust financial support structure was put in place for those strong youngsters that defect to give them a better chance of leading a normal life sooner. It is now harder than ever.
Is there someone on this site that has the experience, drive and time to set up an charity for ‘teenage ex pb’s in need’. The charity could aim to help get some of these youngsters on a more balanced path in terms of financing education, training, career advice as well as rent support, getting jobs etc.
There are a lot of us on this site. If each of us gave a small donation on a regular basis this could go a huge way to help. And if you are elderly, have children and grandchildren that no longer speak to you, wouldn’t it be christain to divert a little of your will to this cause.
Each young person that leaves is different. They will range from devout christains, to atheists, from having high moral standards to no moral standards, teetotallers to alchoholics. (Tax gatherers and sinners comes to mind for the latter – and we know who helped them).
If anyone has the inclination to take this idea forward I would suggest that this site would be an excellent way of gaining donations.
Guest: Geoff Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@gardinerg.freeserve.co.uk
City, Country: United Kingdom
Date & Comments: July 11, 2002
Mr. Gatecrasher
Please will you stop these ridiculous jokes.
Cannot you see Human tragedy?
Maybe you are a spaceman?
Or just putting a finger in cyberspace?
Guest: Rennus Crossley
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country:
Date & Comments: July 12, 2002
Tess Hattingh in South Africa, where are you? You must have changed your e-mail address please e-mail me.
Guest: Clive Wyncoll
Guest E-mail: clivewyn@aol.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: July 15, 2002
For the information of those who may have known her, my dear mother Alice Wyncoll passed away early this morning (15/07/02)at her home in Romford.
e-mail for futher information if required.
Clive
Guest: Norman Follows
Guest E-mail: ploppy1@xtra .co.nz
City, Country: Motueka, New Zealand.
Date & Comments: July 16, 2002
Great site, very imformative. For a long time I have been wondering why the rest of us Heathen have been Exclusivly Excluded. I'm grateful that I'm not bound by the traditions of men, not the stupid rules anyway. Thanks for your site.
Keep up the excellent work.
Norm
Guest: Hill, Arthur & Janet (nee/ Noel)
Guest E-mail: ajmerrowdown@care4free.net
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: July 16, 2002
We are shortly to be moving to another part of the country. Will come back at a later date with a comment and our new location.
Guest: John Percival
Guest E-mail: caromeld1@supanet.com
City, Country: Sheffield, S Yorks, England.
Date & Comments: July 16, 2002
EX EB 1979/1980 - Corn & Bred Norwich.
I left over 20 yrs ago, and have suffered quite a lot, trying to come to terms with a world I was not raised to be able to deal with. I am alcolhic (one of the many ex eb), live with my partner, who struggles to cope with me and our two lovely daughters. They are puzzled to say the least about their many cousins, Aunt, Uncle & Grandma, whom they would love to get in touch with. I find it heartbreaking to tell them that it is not likely to happen - how can you build a normal relationship when the usual regurgitated, dogmatic diatribes spoil the flow of conversation and everything else? In particular, they would love to get in touch with Aunty Catherine Stanton's former sister-in-law, Geraldine. We seem to be having problems with Outlook Express at the moment - help would be appreciated. If anyone else out there remembers me, I would love to hear from you.
PS. Please don't try to sell me alternative religion.
Guest: Graham Frost
Guest E-mail: grahamfrost@hotmail.com
City, Country: Peterborough, England
Date & Comments: July 18, 2002
Just a brief note to say a HUGE THANKYOU to all the ex- EB's who made our visit to Canada such a fun-filled experience. I have been home nearly a week and my feet still haven't really touched the ground. It was great to meet so many people who have interesting and fulfilling lives.
Also thanks to 'S' for the recent posting - please post some more, and Clive Wyncoll - sorry to hear about your mother.
Finally, thanks again to Dick W, without whom many of the amazing events in the past two years of my life would never have happened.
Guest: nonnie
City, Country: anonshire
Date & Comments: July 19, 2002
Can someone tell me what the fixation with blue is among EB's? Navy, royal, chambray blue shirts. Are the young married women not required to wear the scarf anymore? Many women here in anonshire don't wear them. Plenty of ribbons though.
Guest: Anon
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: July 19, 2002
Like many others, we were visited by two older brothers earlier this year, after leaving the Brethren of our own free will 12 years ago. Our house had been up for sale and they appeared to be very interested in where we were moving to. On learning that one of our reasons for moving was to help my wife cope with her recent recollection of being seriously abused as a child by a very well known and 'respected Brother', the best they could manage to say was "there's no need to have a wireless in your car is there?" These people are so deluded and brain washed, that they are unable to make a reasonable judgement. Paedophilia is now considered on a par with having a car radio! As far as we know, they are still quite happy to break bread with people who should be locked up in jail. We have successfully relocated now and my wife is much more restful, in the knowledge that her abuser no longer knows where we are. Yes, I am the same person who posted this revelation earlier in the year.
The person responsible denies all knowledge of what happened, using the same lawyers as General Pinochet and Dave Jones ex Southampton FC manager. I rest my case. To anyone considering going back after recent overtures have been. DON'T DO IT.
Guest: Vanessa Cummings
City, Country: Org of Hastings NZ
Date & Comments: July 19, 2002
To Greg Currie
Just want to wish you all the luck with your new future and with your new partner and Wendy with her new life.. The Brethren are nothing but a brainwashing cult. Glad you've seen the light. Wish my family had sense.
Cheers. You will remember me as Vanessa Janson of Hastings
Guest: Mark Watson
Guest E-mail: radar@radarsbluesandgraphics.com
City, Country: Wollongong, NSW, Australia (ex Picton and Eastwood EB's)
Date & Comments: July 20, 2002
Please note my change of email address from mr-blues@zip.com.au to the one above. Interesting regarding the "wrongly put out". My circumstances which I consider to be hilarious were that I was caught attending a drive-in movie theatre for which I was shut up. My brothers were taken to stay with the local "leader" who lived up from the "meeting place", whilst my parents remained at home. One nite I decided to go for a drive past the "meeting place" after which I received a visit from the local "leaders" stating that I had tryed to murder my brother who was walking down the road to the meeting place. I never saw my brother, and since he (now out) has told me that he told the leaders that my car was nowhere near him. But after the leaders consulted John Hales who in turn consulted Jim Symington, I was withdrawn from as I had attempted to murder my brother in Cain and Abel fashion. I was then shut in my room for 6 months while they tried everything in the book to get me to repent. And I certainly was not going to repent for something that I did not do. Finally I left the family house, after making my position clear and then finding accomodation with my my new employer (yes I had been working for one of the EB's). If they came back to me and ranted on about me being wrongly removed.. I would laugh as they did me the best service ever and I would never return to them, not even if paid.
Reminds me of a joke.. a friend went to heaven where he was shown around the different quarters..for different religions, and he asked St Peter what was behind the big wall.. "Oh" said St Peter "we keep the EB's over there, they like to think they are the only ones here"
Guest: FREDGUY
Guest E-mail: guyx@yahoo.com
City, Country: IVORYCOAST
Date & Comments: July 20, 2002
VISSITED. THANK YOU MY PEOPLE.
Guest: Jenny Kells
Guest E-mail: Jenny.Kells@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: N.Z.
Date & Comments: July 21, 2002
To anon from annonshire
I think they consider the colour blue the heavenly colour.
Guest: anonymous
City, Country: uk
Date & Comments: July 21, 2002
This site makes some very sad reading in parts. There is too much raking up of mud and I know some of it is inaccurate. (I wasn't involved after 1970).
If we are Christians, we should be focusing on what the Lord Jesus Christ has done for us, by dying on the cross, to save us from our sins. I was brought up in the exclusive brethren and I am very grateful for being brought up in a stable christian home, having excellent teaching and good fellowship. I do accept that things went off the rails in the 50's onwards, but God doesn't put us through something for nothing.
Please think on that which is good, the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient for everything.
Guest: Glenda Kilroe
Guest E-mail: santonika@hotmail.com
City, Country: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Date & Comments: July 22, 2002
I was born into the PB religion and my family left when I was just 1 year old. I would like to get in touch with relatives or family friends. I don't have many relatives that I know, and I would like to. Feel free to contact me if you know me or my relatives.
Guest: Geoffrey Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@gardinerg.freeserve.co.uk
City, Country: Birmingham, UK
Date & Comments: July 22, 2002
It is still beyond my comprehension as to why certain individuals still sign in as 'anonymous'. Perhaps one of these people might explain?
Guest: Roger Stott
Guest E-mail: rogerstott@onetel.net.uk
City, Country: Exeter, Devon, England
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
Thank you 'anonymous' (21 July) for your weasel words in mitigation of the exclusive brethren. Now could we hear your defence of the Spanish Inquisition? (Perhaps on the lines of 'they only used the rack and the thumbscrews to try to bring people to Jesus'?)
It is remarkable how often sentimentality is used as a cover for cruelty and exploitation. We should have learned by now to see things as they are (not through some misty emotional filter) and to call them by their proper names.
(And why are you afraid to tell us your name?)
Roger Stott
Guest: nonnie
City, Country: anonshire
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
To the question of why people sign anonymously, is that as far as is known this site is monitored and I for one am not willing to lose my livelihood. (non eb) Also thanks for the explanation of why the colour blue is used....BUT REALLY??????
Guest: Gabriel Pino
Guest E-mail: skylink02@hotmail.com
City, Country: ARGENTINA
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
Dear Folks:
I think all of us who have been hurt, injured or unfairly affected in some way by The Exclusive Brethren should join all together someday for "One Universal Goal" and apply to Justice by a "World Wide Legal Demand" against them. We would certainly win this fight against evil because there are many legal means to do it. No matter where you are. Men justice is almost the same everywhere and it won't ever support the EB's evil system that they use to keep so many poor souls under Fear and Repression. Think about all these poor children still captive in there...Oh God! Trust me, the Victory is in our hands! I fought legaly against them long ago and succeeded. Unfortunately evil is still here and its best weapon is "ignorance". As long as spiritual slavery and fear remain, many more innocent people will suffer because of it. I don't know the way all of you that read this think, but I feel you are either "Selfish" or "Coward" because you just do (or did) nothing to help those who are still in so far. Did you? I wish I were wrong. If so, please feel free to tell me about your struggle. Maybe we all could do something some day.
Let's share "Our Luck of being Free" with a lot of people that won't ever get it on their own. Be Strong and Wise. God is with us !
Regards,
GABRIEL PINO
Guest: another anon
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
Despite recent strictures on being "anon", I will be so on this occasion to protect the identity of my loved and aged mother. In a phone call to her in the UK couple of days ago, she referred to "a number having come back recently" and rather surprisingly invited me to call her again in future. Also, she was unusually informative about my brother and sister when I enquired. On the other hand, when I mentioned a photo of her parents that I possess, I rather got the impression that such things (pictures of ancestors etc)are still taboo.
So there is probably some sort of slight thawing going on, though whether it amounts to much in reality is doubtful.
Guest: Adrian Sloan
Guest E-mail: Carolandadrian@sloan52.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Bristol. UK
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
In reply to Roger Stott's comment of today about 'Anonymous' of 21 July:
I was brought up in the EBs (although only in the Taylorites from 1966-70) and agree with Anonymous in being thankful for a good grounding in the Scriptures and, even during the Taylorite period, good fellowship. I fully agree with Roger, however, about the extremely evil things that were done (my mother & I were ostracised by her family, who were 'in', from 1961 to 1966, even when my father died in 1962), and I totally reject the cruelty in the name of religion that so many people speak about in this site. I think the good was there in spite of the evil of Jim Taylor & his henchmen. I am sad that a movement that started so well in the early 19th century has degenerated into something that the Lord must weep over.
Guest: Roger Stott
Guest E-mail: rogerstott@onetel.net.uk
City, Country: Exeter, Devon, England
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
I received a direct reply to my recent posting from 'sjclarke' but for some reason it will not open. Clicking on it triggers the 'this program has performed an illegal operation and will be closed down' message. I tried everything I could think of - left clicking, double clicking, copying to another folder etc etc but the message remains obstinately out of reach, closing Outlook Express down every time I try to open it. Could sjclarke re-send the message as I would like to read it. (I did a search on sjclarke on this site but this yielded nothing.)
Roger Stott
Guest: Mark Watson
Guest E-mail: radar@radarsbluesandgraphics.com
City, Country: Wollongong, NSW, Australia
Date & Comments: July 23, 2002
in regards to
Guest: anonymous
City, Country: uk
Date & Comments: July 21, 2002
I would not consider the things mentioned on this site to be mud raking and partially inaccurate. From my experience in the EB's till 1976 and my knowledge via contact with recent "evictee's" I find most comments to be alarmingly accurate.
Many who are no longer EB's have chosen to continue with Chrisianity, many have not. Many have also been psychologically damaged as a result of their experiences, and this site is a wonderful healing tool for those who are rebuilding lives to share and also understand that they were not alone in their experiences.
One of the biggest problems that I faced when out in the real world was that most "outsiders" could not relate to my missing 18 years. Also in conversations where people would discuss schooling and various other social things, what was I supposed to say.. "um.. well I have been in a cult for 18 years and I don't know what you are talking about"
Sadly, my healing came from experiences with drugs and alcohol, seedy lifestyles and a general area of confusion and pain, as basically it have been a jump from one extreme to another, and I had not yet seen a middle road.
In time after many disastrous experiences, a middle road helped, along with a failed marriage and an attempted suicide about 6 years ago. The hospital psychiatrist offered the words that turned my life around, which were "Stop living for everybody else and do what you want to do, become who you want to become, not what someone is telling you to become"
From that moment, I have never looked back and I can say that although I will be on medication for the rest of my life, the last years have been one happy day after another.
Would I change anything in my past experiences? No I would not, as it is all the good and bad experiences that have made the person that I am today.
In my case, I admit to ditching Christianity. Attempts to try various churches etc never gave any shining light to me. I admire those who have been able to continue a Christian path and have the deepest respect for them if it is providing happiness in their lives. For me, my happiness now comes from within and far surpasses anything else I have ever experienced.
So please anonymous from the UK.. You may have found your calling in life, but many are still healing .. let them benefit from the facts and comments that we all share on this site, and let the "outsiders" learn more in the hope that they may come to a better understanding of the things that ex-EB's try to deal with.
regards
Radar (Mark Watson)
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: July 24, 2002
The value of this site among others is for people to share experiances, something the pb leaders clamped down on, as a means to hold the people in their grip- another common denominator of a cult, or at least cult like behaviour.
I think one of the biggest challenges facing anybody leaving, of their own volition or otherwise, is to try an figure out what they do believe. If the frame of referance is only what the pb's have carefully fostered, then the individual hasn't got the foggiest idea of what christianity is all about- and no wonder some folks reject "christianity", or what they think it is. I put this to anyone- read the scriptures, especially the gospels, and pay attention to how the Lord interacted with the common people [also note how the religious people who had a vested interest in maintaining their power over the people acted] and form your own opinion about christianity- not what you are told by anyone, not by what you see in any church, not by your pb experiance, but simply judge christianity by what you read in the scriptures. I challange anyone to read of the Lord's life, his example in his daily walk, and "reject christianity". The scriptures are clear- "go and do thou likewise"
Guest: Anonymous
City, Country: Anonymous
Date & Comments: July 24, 2002
To answer the question as to why some of us prefer to remain anonymous, I can only answer for myself. It is difficult to come to terms with one's position as an "outsider", after being brought up amongst "the chosen ones". To sign in as an anonymous guest gives one a little comfort psychologically, knowing that one's opinion will not be critized by those who may have prejudice against them for some reason or another. Please Geoffery Gardiner, do not ostrasize those who may be suffering through the healing process, and who find some relief in expressing themselves on this site.
Guest: Robert Bradley
Guest E-mail: trebor@actrix.gen.nz
City, Country: Wellington, New Zealand
Date & Comments: July 24, 2002
Today, July 24, 2002 we were visited by our EB daughter Rosemary together with two EB minders. We had not seen her for 30 years! Love flowed and although not able to express it fully we loved her, do love her and will continue to do so irrespective of EBs and their strictures. Unconditional love like the sun and the rain.
Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: JWeigh6523@aol.com
Date & Comments: July 24, 2002
I note that several contributors refer to the good grounding in scripture they had fromthe exclusive brethren.
I beg to differ.
It was possible to learn large sections by rote and swallow an EB point of view and an EB ability to make scripture say whatever I wanted it to say. That is not the same as a good grounding. The same people who gave a so called "good grounding" also taught massive heresy.
The two are mutually exclusive.
John Weightman
Guest: Elizabeth Barrett
Guest E-mail: cande.charles@virgin.net
City, Country: Isle of Wight, England
Date & Comments: July 24, 2002
I'm just wondering if anyone can remember what happened to my aunt, Dorothy Pridham, local in Bristol. My husband Charles and I have been out since 1975 and would love to hear from anyone who remembers us from years ago.
Guest: Steve Fawkes
Guest E-mail: stephenfawkes@aol.com
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: July 25, 2002
I too question whether the EB's provide any good grounding in the scriptures. They do provide a respect for them that borders on the superstitious. They do extract piecemeal a variety of texts that are used to justify their own doctrines (sometimes as little as half a verse). These admittedly are instilled into the individual's mind in a way that is almost never seen outside the EB's.
But is this a grounding? What about approaching the scriptures with an open and humble mind, with consideration for our all too human blindness and self-deception? What about concern for such literary features such as genre, the author's purpose and audience etc?
But their highly distinctive approach to scripture is understandable when we know that, for them, scripture-as-the-word-of-God is really only a cover for scripture-as-a-weapon-of-domination.
Guest: PMCLARKE
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@home.com
Date & Comments: July 25, 2002
Good grounding in the scriptures? Another common denominator of all cults or cult like behaviour is to invoke the scriptures as their"authority" to impose their will on the common people. The Pharisees condemned our Lord to die claiming "scriptural" authority. "The letter kills, but the spirit quickens" Where is the evidence of "feed my lambs, and shepherd my sheep?"
Guest: Iain Gibb
Guest E-mail: Iain.Gibb@campbell-lee.co.uk
City, Country: Grangemouth, UK
Date & Comments: July 25, 2002
I agree with John Weightman's comments regarding the EBs and 'good grounding in Scripture'. When I left the EBs, I had this notion as well, but the more I look into the principles of Scripture interpretation, the more I realise the EBs went out of their way to ensure no one dared interpret the Scriptures properly.
I now understand that the first questions to ask myself when reading a portion of the Bible is to ask 'What was the context? What did it mean to original writer? What would it convey to original recipient? What was the culture?' Only when I have asked myself these questions, can I understand the true meaning, and then I can work out how to apply it in a different century in a different culture.
I would respectfully ask anyone who thinks the EBs gave a 'good grounding' in Scripture to ask themselves very seriously who would be believed in the EBs - someone who understood the original Greek or Aramaic and could objectively tell us its meaning or the current universal lead?
The term 'exegesis' may not be a household word, but it is essential for the interpretation and application of Scripture. When someone used the term once in front of JHS he was publicly mocked. No one would ever dare say, 'This is what the original meant' no matter how much they had studied it. The result was an impoverished and unreliable understanding of Scripture - a necessary prerequisite for the acceptance of heresy.
I knew the books of the Bible, how many chapters in each, and could quote quite a few verses (JND translation only) etc etc when I was still in the EBs - but it was shallow, and a true understanding of God's love or God's holiness, or of the person of Jesus Christ was woefully lacking.
Regards to all
Iain
Guest: Abigail Cresswell (nee Codd)
Guest E-mail: cpeng_abigail@btinternet.com
City, Country: Beeston Nottingham UK
Date & Comments: July 25, 2002
Have read some of the emails from brethren I knew before I left in the 60's. Perhaps some of you may remember me. I left for Kenya in 1966 and ten years later, left for South Africa staying there for a further 20 years.
I returned to Britain in 1994 to share the last few years of my daughter’s life with her. She died in 1998 from Crohns disease. Although hard-up and bereaved, my father who died recently still refused to acknowledge my presence in the country aided and abetted by my stepmother.
What I still find strange is that they only went to see my daughter when she lay unconscious in Intensive Care and unable to communicate. She had begged me to see my father in her last dreadful period of her life and my stepmother (20 years younger than father) always found an excuse not to. My father by that stage was in a wheel-chair and helpless so Phyllis always spoke on his behalf.
After Louise died, Father also deteriorated and I was told he was in hospital. I requested to be with him and just to say my goodbyes and declare my love for him. My sister Prue and self were not allowed near him and were informed of his death 48 hours later.
Why did the brethren bother, we had wanted to see him alive? Was this yet another form of their warped sense of humour? Don't try and tell me they did that out of Christian consideration. It seems they only appear on the scene to torment and get some sort of perverse enjoyment out of someone else’s misery. It beggars belief how cruel they can be, how insensitive.
Father’s funeral was a further disgrace. His coffin was roughly shunted out of the back of a people’s carrier and tipped sideways into the grave. I now find that the headstone on his grave is about to dislodge itself. It is the cheapest rubbish I have ever seen erected. When I think of how carefully the Lord's family prepared his body for burial, I now know that the pb's do whatever takes their fancy.
They then informed me at the graveside that I should read my Bible. I do, I just wonder who wrote theirs. Perhaps they all need glasses. After all, they don't pay rates on their meeting rooms saying that it is a church. Ever tried opening the doors? I am quite sure they could afford them and perhaps have another shot at reading the truth.
Extremism in any form is dangerous as we recently saw on Sept. 11th. It is acts like the brethren commit that leads to that sort of thing. To drive someone to commit suicide is no different; it is still death at the end of the day. There is enough to contend with in life without people inflicting mental pain deliberately and with intent, but please don't do it in the Lord's name; that is despicable. The brethren used to refer frequently about the danger of their being persecuted for their beliefs. As far as I am concerned, they are the Persecutors and have got it down to a fine art. If I wrote a book on the subject, I think it would turn into Volumes. Fortunately I can apply logic and I condemn no-one. Nuff said.
Guest: Another anon ...
Guest E-mail: wanderlust_t@hotmail.com
City, Country: South West, UK
Date & Comments: July 25, 2002
I am writing just to see if anyone can give me any little glimmer of hope/advice. Me, my parents and younger brother left the PB's in 1970, when I was 13 yrs - I believe the pressure all became too much. Since then life has been an interesting mix of change! My dear brov died 9.5 years ago after a terminal illness.
Now just this week, completely out of the blue my parents anounced that they are more than likely going back to the Exclusive Brethren, after a sudden visit from a dear relative (who never left). I understand their life has been difficult, especially now they are older and not always so well in their health. They are quite convinced that the 'EB' is the one and only way?? Even though it will mean, I am sure, that they will never be able to see me - their one and only off-spring. Also, if they move to be in an EB area and things didn't work out for them (I can't imagine that it really would!)- I wonder what would happen to their house. Does ones money / property not all get a bit tied up with the Brethren?
I would appreciate any pointers as to how somehow get around what is going on, and an up to date overview of what it is really like. Also I want to try and give them other (apart from not seeing me), good reasons why they might regret going back. I am sure it must have changed in 32yrs, different rules added. I don't think they realise that. It is always so easy to remember the "Rosy" bits of the past eh?
Another Anon - I know but I couldn't let the side down!!!!
Guest: Douglas and Rosemary Graham
Guest E-mail: dougdra @globalnet.co.uk
City, Country: Cumbria .England
Date & Comments: July 25, 2002
We left the EB's in 1967. We were based at Wesley Street Newcastle on Tyne. Douglas's Parents David and Freda Graham subsequently left the organisation as did Rosemary's Grand Parents Archie and Mary Short and her Aunt Ellen. Only Aunt Ellen is still alive.
Douglas 's sister Margaret(married Andrew Gilmore,Horsham) is still with the EB's.
We would be very interested to hear from any who remember us.
Guest: J P
Guest E-mail: caromeld1@supanet.com
City, Country: Sheffield, S Yorks, England.
Date & Comments: July 26, 2002
Thanks for the words of encouragement sent to me.
I feel mentally scarred by my past. Throughout my schooling, I was considered bright enough for H.E. but at 11-12 yrs was told 6th form+ was a definite no-no. I had cousins who went on to OxBridge under less restricted times. Also, many jobs would not be deemed suitable, including Medicine & Engineering (my Dad's job). I could not participate in after-school activities including Choir, Cricket & Drama, in which I excelled, plus the company of non-EB schoolfriends On leaving school during the early eighties recession, although other EB kids found work in their family businesses, I was not offered anything, and being withdrawn from, found myself inexperienced, lacking in 'real' qualifications, no confidence and few tools to face an unknown world. There must be others out there, who can identify with what I have described. I write now to seek some advice - maybe someone out there has experience of litigation? My purpose is due to the extreme constraints imposed by my EB upbringing, I feel I should make a stand against them. I have heard of Civil cases being brought against other organisations. I am a human being - all human beings have rights and all human beings deserve respect, don't they?.
Guest: anon
Date & Comments: July 26, 2002
I wish to be anon because it is protecting my family at this stage.. but I have had contact and they reakon that lots are going back. My father also said they had hoped that I would come back and bring my husband into the fold. I did crack up laughing and said are you joking. If my husband kicked the bucket tomorrow I still wouldn't come back. He asked why and my reply was because all you are is a brain washing cult.
My question was do you really think it is christian like that you can't have anything to do with me? His reply was no... I will find a way.
So why spoil a wee bit of contact??? and get them into trouble?
Guest: Vanessa
Date & Comments: July 26, 2002
They are allowed to use credit cards, etpos etc now.
It also seems that the girls allowed to cut their hair now.. It is getting shorter by the day. What I have noticed is the females are embrassed of their hair.. They make sure that it is down their jacket, cardie or shirt.(Blouse)
And they are just plain arrogant and rude.
Vanessa
Guest: Vanessa
Date & Comments: July 26, 2002
TO THE BELL GIRLS CHRIS AND LYNLEY
Hi it is me Vanessa. I do not remember you two girls but just thought I would say hi to you both. My friend told me she had rung you and had a chat. I do hope all is well . I know it is hard but when they stare at you call them by their names if you know them or wave and always make sure you smile.. Honestly, you have left the church so why let them visit you??
If you want them to leave you alone tell them to ... off or you will get the police. Threaten them with police and the papers and they do not like that. They don't like publicity. They will soon get the message .
You have to be strong Chris and Lynley. They like to harrass you . That is all what they are doing. And they won't leave you alone till you do. Cheers and I will be thinking of you.
Guest: Iain Gibb
Guest E-mail: Iain.Gibb@campbell-lee.co.uk
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: July 27, 2002
At risk of appearing to pontificate, which I really do not want to do, can I add a comment regarding the 'anon' debate?
When someone wishes to protect their family (possibly still in the EBs or for some other sensitive reason), but still has something to say, I do not think anyone could or would object to them making an anonymous entry in the Guestbook. I hope anyone who is thinking of making such an entry will not feel intimidated.
However, there have been other entries, and there was one dated 21 July, which was trying to preach at other people and was signed 'anonymous'. It may of course have been a spoof, but if the writer of that entry was trying to make a point, in my opinion he did more harm than good because he or she (or it) did not have the courage to sign his or her (or its) name.
There have been other entries since the one I refer to which have been 'anon' and I fully understand their reasons, but trying to hide behind anonymity to preach at people, is in my opinion, disgraceful
Love to all
Iain
Guest: anonymous
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: July 27, 2002
In response to some of you being offended by my 'anonymous'entry of the 21st July, you don't know the reasons for somebody wanting to stay anonymous and I have the right to protect my family. After all the whole wide world reads this. It was not a spoof comment either.
In defence of my weasel words, I am a 'she' and would like to point out that not everybody was subjected to a bad experience in the exclusives during the 60's. Some of us had a relatively normal existence, I am glad to report, and that is why I put the comment in.
(Please note also to those of you that think that I don't have a sound judgement of the Taylor system, well I have to inform you that I do and I don't view my experience with a pair of rosy tinted spectacles either.)
That is my final comment and I am sorry that so many people found my comments so offensive.
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: July 28, 2002
I must confess that since leaving the peebs we have sometimes enjoyed the wicked occupation of watching TV. The younger children have been particularly taken with the Disney Channel. Two of our girls even entered the recent tree house model competition, and the Good Lord showed his dissaproval by allowing our 10 yr old Sarah to win it. Her prize is an 11 day family safari in Kenya. We will have an off-road vehicle, and a driver to guide us. We will go in a hot air balloon over the animals. We will see the pink flamingos on the lakes at sunrise.
Of course none of the peebs would ever be allowed to do anything so worldly as that. And none of them would ever want to?
So, instead of eating their hearts out, why don't they just quit and get a life?
Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: PJFrench@Carlyle.vic.edu.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Date & Comments: July 28, 2002
In response to JP's 'lament'...
Life is only what you make it - look at the negatives and look for misery and you won't be disappointed.
You are not alone in what happened to you or how you feel, but that is not going to get you anywhere.
Stop feeling sorry for yourself, develop a positive attitude and take a few positive steps. You don't seem to be doing that ... and booze will only make it worse!
In any evernt if you wish to sue someone for damages, you are bound to mitigate [act to limit]their loss. This you haven't done, and if you are serious about taking the action you mention, a snowball has more chance of surviving hell than you have of succeeding with your action.
Guest: Adrian Sloan
Guest E-mail: Carolandadrian@sloan52.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Bristol, UK
Date & Comments: July 28, 2002
As one of the people who claimed to have had a 'good grounding in the Scriptures' from the EBs, I should explain that I was only in the Taylorites for 4 years and much of my knowledge came from an 'out' group in the early 60s. I acquired a good knowledge of the Scriptures but have rejected all the cultic applications the EBs put on them since, having been in mainstream churches (Baptist & Anglican) for the last 20 years. My experience may therefore not be typical. I do consider my exposure to the Scriptures during the EB period to have been valuable.
Guest: Mike Woolnough
Guest E-mail: mikewool@supernet.com
City, Country: Tiptree Essex
Date & Comments: July 29, 2002
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
Date & Comments: July 29, 2002
The reasons we all left are as varied as each of us, some out of disgust, some from real excercise, some simply to get away from "religeon" [for which I understand-the gospel was grossly missrepresented, and the hypocracy blatent] some were chucked out and wanted desperately to get back, and again, they may have left wives, husbands, or children, and the pb's did this simply to instill fear in the rest, and to tighten their grip to show their power.
However, looking back, reguardless of one's personal experiance, there are one or two cases that haunt me-one the little old guy "Jackie" who had Downs Syndrome, who loved to come to the "tea meetings" back in the 50's- and when the "eating matter" came in, someone went down and took Jackie out of the hall, because we couldn't eat with him- presumably Jackie was "evil" because he wasn't breaking bread....then there was "Cathy", a friend of my mom's- she grew up without a mother, and made a bad marriage to someone who didn't treat her well, had 6 kids, but the meeting was the only source of support and friendship she had. We told her she had to leave her husband back in 1960, and when she didn't, she was "withdrawn from" and we took the little she had away from her. She carried on for a few years, and died leaving her kids, the youngest only about 6 or so. We left in 1970, but she had died by then, and we couldn't even go back and say we were sorry
You might say in the grand scheme of things, these weren't earth shattering events, and probably nobody outside of Victoria even knew these people, as they were what some would call insignificant, but I wonder what the Lord thinks? I was only a teenager back then, and didn't personally take part in these events, but I was there, and the memories don't go away. It has however, helped shape my values, and hopefully influenced how I have acted.
Guest: Tim Twinam
Guest E-mail: timt@surfbest.net
City, Country: Stowe, Vermont, USA
Date & Comments: July 29, 2002
The Dreaded Email Change Guestbook Entry:
Please note that I have just changed email address yet again ... my cable company (Adelphia) just went into Chapter 11 and the owner and sons were arrested - so do I win a prize for the most original Email_Change_Excuse?
2nd Reason ... I have to side with the 'EB's Increased Bible Knowledge' group simply because the only academic prize that I ever won at school was in a class Bible Quiz. They were stunned that a boy who never attended a RK (Religious Knowledge) class in his life walked away with a Mars Bar ... of course I couldn't share it.
Smiles and Best to all!
Tim Twinam
timt@surfbest.net
PS ... If Gerard Rayment (July 28th) needs a driver for his forthcoming Kenya trip, I'd like to apply and Oh, can I borrow Sarah when a decent competition surfaces over here? It would be nice to win something bigger than a Mars Bar!
Guest: Anonymous
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: July 29, 2002
I have followed the entries on this site with great interest over the last year or so, hoping one day to see the names of some of my relatives who may have escaped the clutches of the Jim brethren. I have found some of the entries since 21 July a little disconcerting. For those of you that don’t like anonymous entries, please check the site policies. Until RKW changes the site policy on anonymous postings, then there is no problem in making them. I sense that the “EB” is coming out in those who demur to such postings as they appear to be trying to apply their own ‘rules’ to the site.
Guest: Ann E Mouse
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: July 30, 2002
Is Mr Gibb suggesting that you have to be fluent in Greek or Aramaic to have a good grounding in scriptures? Any intelligent person would agree with that, but unfortunately it doesn't always follow.
I happen to know a Cambridge graduate who is a Greek scholar, professes Christianity, but rejects there is a hell.
Guest: Laurie Twinam
Guest E-mail: Laurie@twinam.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Sevenoaks, UK
Date & Comments: July 30, 2002
Only fifty years ago the group we refer to as the Jims was, in spite of some imperfections, highly respected for its faithful Bible teaching and high moral tone. In those days a 'good Christian grounding' was certainly available in the EBs. What happened in that circle in the next twenty years up to 1970 was a tremendous disaster, replacing their former focus on the incomparable Man of the Gospels by a fanatical obsession with the current 'man of God' and the distortions he introduced. The devil had a field day then - but I am old enough to remember that there was indeed a 'good grounding' before the 'massive heresy'. And I am convinced that there are many older folk still in the Jims who remember those better days and still have some 'good grounding' ministry at the back of their bookshelves, but are prevented by the many subtle means available from making effective protests.
Peter Clarke's recent challenge to compare Christian profession with the Man of the Gospels is important for all of us. That's what led me to leave the Jims in 1970, and it is still the basis for leaving them. And I believe that reflects the fundamental basis of all sound Christian practice. How encouraging it is to read in the Gospels about the transformed lives of the many casualties Jesus took in hand - and such transformation - including (Praise the Lord!) some exJim casualties - is still taking place today.
Guest: Matthew S
Guest E-mail: www.matthewsuckling@hotmail.com
City, Country: Christchurch, New Zealand
Date & Comments: July 30, 2002
I have left the exclusive Brethren group inthe last few months and after leaving a legalistic system like this I would like to suggest to any body giving up the faith that you have never had it! because most of them don't have it.
Guest: Iain Gibb
Guest E-mail: Iain.Gibb@campbell-lee.co.uk
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: July 31, 2002
To Dear Ann E Mouse
If you had supplied your e-mail address I would have replied to you back-channel rather than subject all the readers of the Guestbook to a discussion, which will only interest a small minority.
But for sake of clarification, I emphatically reject the notion that you can only be well-taught in the Scriptures if you know Greek or any other ancient language. Many people come to faith in Jesus Christ through reading the Bible in their own language with no intermediary other than the Holy Spirit, although the more usual pattern would be 'How can they hear without someone preaching?' - as per Romans 10:14.
The point in my previous posting was that the very idea of attempting to understand the original languages or making use of scholarly work by others who had done so, was ridiculed.
It was this positive rejection of serious Bible study, the fact that you would not dare to do it in the EBs at risk of excommunication because it would be seen as insulting to the '3 great ministries', that leads me to the conclusion that that it is not valid to say we got a good grounding in Scripture in the EBs. When we left we had a huge amount to unlearn.
I agree that we learned a lot about the Bible and the Holy Spirit can use that at a later stage once a lot of EBism has been cleansed from our minds, but that is God's mercy, not 'a good grounding'.
I don't want to abuse the guestbook, and if there is anything I have said you find offensive, please do not hesitate to e-mail me directly.
Regards
Iain
Guest: Bro. Francis, C.C.N.
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: San Diego, California
Date & Comments: July 31, 2002
If webmaster Wyman will permit it, here is a post of one ex-peeb's personal
observations and experiences.
I escaped from the clutches of the cult in 1967, and left with no manifest ill will on either side.
In the "assembly meeting" in which they had to withdraw from me, I responded with a farewell message embodying no blame, no bitterness, no self-justication. Instead I simply expressed thanks and love and regret that we had come to a parting of our ways.
I think we are called to cultivate compassion and forgiveness, repudiating any holding of resentments. Further, we are to love even those who have injured us. I wish I could see more forgiveness in the recorded posts on this board. Plus a readiness to love even those who harmed us. Ephesians 4:31-32 admonishes putting away bitterness and instead calls us to be tender-hearted and forgiving.
Some points:
Comments invited: <frank59e@yahoo.com>.
Guest: Alan Carvell
Guest E-mail: alancarvell1@aol.com
City, Country: Dudley ( Near St Andrews.)
Date & Comments: July 31, 2002
Re all the Latest aggro on this site with anon and his mouse! will you all get a life, why worry how you had the scriptures rammed down your throat! and all this manure about the grounding, we all had! Does anyone really care?
Still can’t understand why all the anon’s are hiding! Even after several replies!
Please live in peace as I do, relax, go and get a season ticket for Birmingham City F.C (not many left now!) as I have for my-self and my wife Jill and chill out, life is too short.
By the way thanks for your prayers, when B’ham F.C. were at Cardiff for the final, we won and are now in the Premiership, and as an update we beat Tranmere 7 – 0 tonight.
Still upset that the Peebs have not contacted me yet to ask me for my return!!
All the best
Alan and Steve Bruce
Guest: Geoffrey Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@gardinerg@freeserve.co.uk
City, Country:
Date & Comments: Birmingham, UK
In response to JP, 26/7/02:
I, also, am mentally scarred from the past for exactly the same reasons.
To Peter French, 29/07/02: Yes, a snowball does have a chance, maybe a small one, I agree, but still a chance..
Guest: ED
Guest E-mail: suppressed
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: August 1, 2002
To Anon from the UK on 21st July
If you left the EB's before 1970 it wasn't too bad but try living in there in the 1990's!!! That was BAD
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.wyenet.co,uk
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: August 6, 2002
A clear phenomenon is now emerging. “In-members”, of families divided by the Brethren, are approaching “out-members” with a view to reconciliation. Since the phenomenon is worldwide and its beginning more or less coincides with his succession, we must infer that it emanates from Bruce David Hales.
How are commands passed down from Hales to the individuals on the ground who make the approaches? Are the outcomes reported back to him? We know that he keeps a central register of all members (and, presumably, ex-members) worldwide. There are three main possibilities:-
Guest: Ted and Esther Druckenmiller
Guest E-mail: tedruck@quixnet.net
City, Country: Trenton, Missouri, USA
Date & Comments: August 6, 2002
The following message summarizes my and Esther’s recent activities in moving from Warren, NJ to Trenton, MO.
Back in January I posted a message “Does God’s Hand Direct My Life?” I had just come out to Missouri for a 4 – 6 month assignment to manage construction of 12 Mil project to upgrade the can labeling, packaging and palletizing lines in Con Agra’s Trenton Plant. The project had already been defined and most of the equipment ordered. We selected mechanical and electrical contractors to perform the installations and proceeded. On June 19 my portion of the work was completed with the two new main lines operating and modifications to three retained lines nearing completion.
It is most interesting for Esther and myself to have both come to the realization in April that we should seriously consider moving to and contributing to this community instead of continuing our two year search for a senior community. When we inquired about available property in the neighboring farming area as well as within the town of Trenton it did not take us long to make an offer on a fine home in Trenton. Just a nice old colonial completely renovated in the last ten years with a fine one story addition in 1996, located on a 1 acre plot adjacent to the local nine hole golf course. A nice park environment where we could entertain guests who would like to make a visit to mid-America.
We found housing costs here one third that of New Jersey and taxes one fourth. Anticipating the needs of our children and grandchildren still engulfed in the exclusive brethren system, we felt the Lord’s definite hand in directing our purchase of this home.
We negotiated the sale of our Warren, NJ home through two phone calls to neighbors, each of whom obtained a proposal on our home. On the Memorial Day weekend I took Esther home and we signed the contract for sale and Esther began the needful packing operation. I returned to Trenton to sign on our new home June 17, close out my project responsibility June 19, receive a few pieces of furniture we ordered on June 20 and returned to NJ on June 21.
After a busy month, during which we had several happy family and friends gatherings, we provided the packing and the movers showed up July 24 to load a 51 foot long truck. On July 25th we closed on our home and left NJ for MO. A very important fact is that our son Garth visited us Mother’s day weekend and upon checking over several homes and reviewing his job situation made the decision to make the move with us.
After closing we proceeded west to an overnight stay in Milton PA to share an evening with my consulting engineering supervisor, then on Michigan for three overnight stays before our final 800 mile drive on July 29 to arrive in our new home at 1:30 A on July 30.
The moving truck arrived that evening and July 31 by 4 PM all our furniture with some 250 plus boxes were inside. By Friday my dear decorative bride of 45 years had turned the house into a home with furniture set and pictures on the wall. On Saturday we had our first guests, the Oberg family from Villa Grove IL with the Rolf Maurer family from Koln Germany. A delightful experience to care for them with a back yard picnic as they were passing thru from Colorado to their home in Illinois.
We have proved in this “smooth” transition a wonderful sense of our heavenly Father’s hand of care and blessing.
Now a very special request. The week before leaving here in June, I became aware that one of our 27? Grandchildren, (Sharon and Roger Garlick’s son Neil), had left the brethren fellowship. This is in no way a surprise to me, but confirms our need to be available for our families care. If anyone knows about Neil, his whereabouts etc, please, please put us in touch with that loved young man. Our address is 113 Country Club Place, Trenton, MO 64683 and phone 660 359 2288.
With affectionate greetings to all and thanks again to Dick Wyman for this wonderful website. May the Lord help us to use it for the blessing of each other!!
Ted and Esther Druckenmiller
Guest: Janet and Arthur Hill
Guest E-mail: ajmerrowdown@care4free.net
City, Country: Maidstone, England
Date & Comments: August 7, 2002
Guest: Peter Steedman
Guest E-mail: petesaura@aol.com
City, Country: Devon, U.K.
Date & Comments: August 8, 2002
Hello to all of you who have struggled to adapt to a way of life which is formed through what you know..rather than what you have been asked to believe in! I was given the proverbial boot in 1985 for being a bad influence at 26 years of age on younger EB's. I was quietly rebelling out of boredom and frustrated at the pressure to marry. When I left ..I was in business with my parents and was handed papers that legally dissolved the partnership. I was put into a house that EB's had loaned me money for...that had no plumbing! I then had letters threatening legal action if I didn't repay the money, etc, etc. I can honestly say that it was the best thing that has happened to me! It was sad..not saying goodbye to family! But I grew up quick and I learnt to be my own person. I have been happily married for 12 years and have 2 boys (this is my real family) I have many happy memories from my youth..of music and laughter. I learnt that to be Spiritual does not mean going to church every night. I also learnt that fear and control does not breed spirituality, but suppresses growth and develops 'card-board cut-outs'. Wild horses would not drag back to that place. They thought they took away everything..but they couldn't take away MY Truth and my Faith.
I would be glad to hear from anyone who knew me back then. I was local at Salisbury, Wiltshire
Regards Pete
Guest: Andrew Parfitt
Guest E-mail: acparfitt@hotmail.com
City, Country: Maidstone, UK
Date & Comments: August 10, 2002
I'm doing family research and wonder if anyone can tell me when/how the Andover, Hants EB meeting began. Also, if there was one in Tettenhall, Staffs. Especially I would like info for the 1840-80 period. My grandparents were (later than that) involved in the Godalming (Farncombe?) meeting. After their deaths we were cut off by family members still in it. Very sad - because they were naturally loving and kind people.
Guest: Peter Pridham
Guest E-mail: ppridham@globalnet.co.uk
City, Country: Doncaster UK
Date & Comments: August 11, 2002
The current rash of visits to those put out over the last 30 years raises a query which, when put to them, the (EBs) seem reluctant to answer -"does not a little leaven, leaven the whole lump"? Why stop at 30 years? Kind of obvious! Despite the current suggestions of a softening of their ideas (rules) - nothing much has changed, certainly not their attitudes in this part of the UK. Recently we have heard reports of a major split or divison developing between the 'old guard' who want to retain the tight religious control and the 'new guys' who want to try and put a human face on EBism and enjoy a few modern toys into the bargain!
If you are visited - don't let yourself be sucked in or deceived, and don't trust that which has consistantly proved untrustworthy!
This creature has not changed it's spots!
Guest: Bob Jackson
Guest E-mail: oldbelvedere@hotmail.com
City, Country: Esperance Western Australia
Date & Comments: August 11, 2002
Interesting to read that "less than right" assembly judgements have been made. Has anybody received monetary reimbursement resulting from this very humbling revelation or are the millions being used in the new move out. Watch out new places here they come!
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
Date & Comments: August 11, 2002
I believe the last comment about the pb's being set up for a major split is inevitable, especially now that BDH is "relaxing" the rules. This will open the door for potential leaders to emerge, claiming they will "defend the Lord's rights" from "compromise".
Of course, the whole thing is all about the lust for power and money, and bears no resemblence to Christianity in any way, shape or form, even though it purports itself to do so. Rememeber the Pharisees held themselves out to be doing exactly the same thing-and crucified our Lord when He challenged their motives.
One very significant feature of the pb's and a major giveaway of their departure from scripture is they have replaced all focus on the Lord with preoccupation of the "assembly" which they have grossly misrepresented and made into a forum for personal power-just another example of a "man made ministry"
"When light becomes darkness, how great the darkness"
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend, England
Date & Comments: August 11, 2002
Hi everyone.
I've been seen by the peebs 3 times in the last few weeks, and also a chance meeting has been very civil, quite different from the past.
I think the change in attitude has been driven by a genuine recognition that they are more in the public spotlight than they ever thought possible. [Thanks mostly to the IT Age and this website, well done Dick]. In my job I converse with the public a lot, and find that if I mention the strict religion I was brought up in I always get a captivated audience - there is no chance of ever changing the subject. The remark I hear every time is "but how can they call themselves Christians? Christianity is about love, and loving people".
Let's be positive here, and encourage the interest in change. The peebs dream of themselves as God's true chosen few. There is a scripture about '..a poor and afflicted people of whom the world was not worthy'. At the moment all you can say about them is they are 'a rich and smug, comfortable people who don't give a damn about the world'.
p.s. I've heard it quoted by smart ass peebs that poor didn't mean financially poor. So what did it mean then? Morally poor? You're dead right there mate.
Guest: Daniel Little
Guest E-mail: danl@metrex.net
City, Country: Winnipeg, Canada
Date & Comments: August 11, 2002
My grandfather, Harold Joyce, passed away in his sleep in Katoomba last night (August 12). He was 93 years young and would have been 94 this coming September. He is survived by Josephine and Edward (both still in the EBs), Barbara (my mother, who was contacted by Ted this morning) and Elizabeth (both out), and many grandchildren and great grandchildren who I couldn't come close to naming!
My mother, brother (Peter) and I were all invited to see his body in Katoomba before he was buried. I, living in Canada, won't be able to visit, but both Mom and Pete are planning on going.
It's sad that I didn't get a chance to talk to him these past 22 years, but Grandpa was a good man who will be missed by all those he leaves behind. I will always have fond memories of visits to my grandparents while growing up.
Daniel.
Guest: Stanislas Hayes
City, Country: Malmoe, Sweden
Date & Comments: August 12, 2002
About women not having to wear scarves any more. Well I think it has come about because they have been misstaken for muslim women these days.
Guest: Pam Fyvie {nee Farren] From Coventry circa 1958-1974
Guest E-mail: pamfyvie@aol.com
City, Country: Kidlington Oxon England
Date & Comments: August 12, 2002
Hi everyone
It's been a while since I signed in & I notice more names I know from the old days. It's good to catch up with you, although I have a new life you can feel a bit rootless sometimes. I live in hope that more of my friends/relatives that knew me or my family from Coventry [parents Victor & Grace Farren, sister Pat brother Tony] will get in touch. Particularly if you're newly out as I well remember how traumatic it was although it was 1974 & I was aged 16! There is life after the Brethren! It is interesting to read that they are reviewing old judgements. How do they track everyone down? I've moved on a lot since then, not that I want to go back it would just be fascinating to hear them apologise, tho I gather it may not be quite like that. My Mother never got over it & died of cancer which I'm sure had a lot to do with it all. I believe they will have to account for it all one day. They have caused so much pain & sadness. I sometimes think no-one who's been through that is ever completely sane although God does heal. You can never erase it all from your life & the only people who understand are fellow sufferers. So thanks Dick for providing this website.
Guest: Clive Wyncoll
Guest E-mail: clivewyn@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: August 13, 2002
Hi Pam,
I did not get your e-mail address, please contact,
Regards,
Clive
Guest: Ted Druckenmiller
Guest E-mail: tedruck@quixnet.net
City, Country: Trenton, Missouri, USA
Date & Comments: August 13, 2002
I am interested to hear of various ones being contacted by the EB's. So far none have come by my door or called. In these contacts has anyone faced them with the real issues of the Aberdeen meetings where the most serious division of the EB's took place?
Remember I have in my possession one of the two original tapes made of the Saturday afternoon meeting which took place there. Anyone wishing a copy of this tape may have one by asking for it. Along with it I will send a copy of RW Stott's booklet If We Walk In The Light. Truth is always the issue and it is clear that the only man to whom anyone can place full confidence and trust is "The Man Christ Jesus." Not a so called Man of God. Let us put our trust in Jesus and His wondrous finished work at Calvary. Further to Aberdeen is the needful searching in all our hearts, why did the Lord allow this sad calamity to take place?
Personnally, I believe it was essential to expose the proud hearts of exclusive brethren. It was in January of 1970 that JTJr espoused "We are the church." I feel the Lord resented such a claim and all that led up to it over many, many years. We had been expressing it in our presumptive ways, but now we actually were saying it in presuptive pride. Something to solemly go over in the divine presence. Psalm 17:2.
Ted Druckenmiller
Guest: Anon
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: North Anonshire !
Date & Comments: August 15, 2002
My daughter is on holiday in the West Country ( England ) and has just reported from outside one of those 'not so public' places of 'worship', that the wearing of denim, jeans for the younger guys, skirts for the girls is prevalent. Thats a bit of a change....they were banned in my day !! Added to which, a couple of weeks ago, I spotted an EB using a cash point outside a bank, in broad daylight too ! I can imagine the thoughts of the people who've had to forgo such simple pleasures for most of their lives. They must be wondering if a lifetime of abstinence was worth it. They've tried to get my wife and I back recently. Hand on heart, I wouldn't go back for a million pounds. One only has to look at the problems they now have with alcohol, to appreciate the lasting legacy of 'Aberdeen', when suddenly whisky was allowed to cover for JT Jnr's excesses. Thank God I'm saved for eternity, and thank God I've been saved from them. Praise the Lord !
Guest: Colin J Harrison
Guest E-mail: cjh@m-1.co.uk
City, Country: Buckingham, England
Date & Comments: August 15, 2002
I was born in Sunderland, moved to Washington with my parents George & Kathleen Harrison. I am now married for the second time to Hazel. I would be most interested in making contact with friends from the Newcastle days in the late 60's and early 70's.
Guest: Connie Peebles
Guest E-mail: craig_peebles@hotmail.com
City, Country: Perth, Canada
Date & Comments: August 15, 2002
I don't know what's going on, but it certainly does seem that the rules are being relaxed. One Saturday afternoon a couple of weeks ago our family was at a local beach when a peeb family showed up with several of their children. One of their daughters who looked about 14 or so had a pretty skimpy binkini on - not quite a thong, but pretty close. The other kids were in shorts. Parents looked mighty uncomfortable once they realized that we were there. My father, who was with us, had his video camera with him and took a few pics. From various things that I've been hearing, it looks as though the young people are being allowed to get away with just about anything in order to keep them in.
Guest: nonnie
City, Country: shireland
Date & Comments: August 16, 2002
Eftpos machines & flexi cards now allowed. The girls and guys in anonshire have worn denim jeans and skirts for years now with not a scarf in sight. Bright coloured skirts and blouses and t-shirts. Looking very attractive - good for them I say. Let's be thankful things are turning around.
Guest: Greg Devitt
Guest E-mail: gregdevitt@hotmail.com
City, Country: Oshawa, Ontario
Date & Comments: August 16, 2002
I am doing a bit of research into the Gospel Halls in Canada. I am curious if anyone has any information regarding their relationship to the EBs. From what I have read, the GHs and the EBs developed separately, but many practices are strikingly similar. Any info, especially regarding GHs in Ontario, would be appreciated.
greg.
Guest: Peter and Mary Newton
Guest E-mail: jonny.newton@tiscali.co.uk
City, Country: Norwich Norfolk
Date & Comments: August 16, 2002
Would be interested in any information and photograph's of my Mother Rose Newton, Brother Royston Newton. Both of Dunstable.
Guest: Dennis Moose
Guest E-mail: dpmoose@attbi.com
City, Country: Pittsburgh
Date & Comments: August 17, 2002
Thank You Lord !! I am now free and my life is now making sense.
Guest: Tarn
Guest E-mail: howtanya@hotmail.com
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: August 18, 2002
Jtjr abused alcohol, power and women. I need to say that the EB's referrals to the 'great men' is the fact they don't have a intimate relationship with our greatest man. The Lord. Don't please don't let what has happened in your personal life tarnish the work our Blessed Savior did.
The giving up, at that bloody cross has more than paid for the impurities of the Exclusive Brethren.
Our bitterness is strong, but God's plans are above ours.
Tarn
Guest: Erica Allen (nee Evershed)
Guest E-mail: erica.allen@virgin.net
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: August 18, 2002
I was born in Barnet, Herts. I left the Brethren in 1973 with my 2 daughters and have never looked back. I'd love to hear from anyone who remembers me or my family. My parents were Reg and Margaret Evershed. I had 5 brothers and sisters but thank goodness have 1 sister who is "out" with me.
Guest: Mark Gillingham
Guest E-mail: mark@courtyard-partnership.co.uk
City, Country: Wiltshire, England
Date & Comments: August 18, 2002
I am interested in the current focus expressed in the guest book as to what is 'allowed' and what is still 'banned' amongst EB's. Since few of these behavioural characteristics have anything to do with faith, but relate instead to the traditions and sub-culture of the sect, and the power of its leadership hierarchy to dominate people's lives, I am not sure that a relaxation of the rules can be deemed 'progress.'
However, it is likely that a watering-down of some of their stricter edicts, will help to erode some of the uniqueness of the group, and thus result in losing more, rather than less, of their membership. As long as not too many people get hurt whilst the organisation shoots itself in the foot, a relaxation of the rules may be a good thing, but I seem to remember that this kind of thing happened once before, just after 1970. Inventing and re-inventing themselves gives them an illusion of 'progress.' Remember what they used to say about the "Lord turning corners"? Well, if you look at their history over the last 40 years, you could only conclude that they believe that He has turned several full circles. Which, of course, is arrant nonsense to anybody with a Christian belief.
The appearance of one swallow doesn't prove that summer has arrived, nor does their use of mobile phones or cash cards definitely signify a crumbling of the EB sect, that holds so many of our friends and family in it's seductive grip. But it is a lovely thought, and there is nothing to stop us from hoping and praying that it is true.
Guest: DR.B ASOKAN
Guest E-mail: gmiofgmfi@hotmail.com
City, Country: BANGALORE, INDIA
Date & Comments: August 18, 2002
Hebron Brethren Assembly has started a ministry called THE GOSPEL MISSION FELLOWSHIP OF INDIA, and it has a teaching and training ministry for the full time servents of God, called GOSPEL MISSION INSTITUTE (GMI). Now GMI has 18 (eighteen)students, regularly studying Bible and involves in outreach programmes. We want your prayer, fellowship in the ministry and meterial support for this ministry. Kindly contact us in the following address:GMI, P.O.BOX-1631, DOORAVANI NAGAR, BANGALORE-560016, INDIA. Thanking you yours in the service of the Lord
DR.B. ASOKAN (Evangelist)
Guest: Jasper Dormer
Guest E-mail: jaspergeez@aol.com
City, Country: Ipswich Suffolk formerly Chelmsford
Date & Comments: August 18, 2002
I`M BACK. Being out of action for 13 months whilst building our house. being busy, tired but very worthwhile.... I too am having many calls and visits, their apology is accepted, I've moved on they have to live with it. WHAT YOU SOW YE SHALL REAP!!!!!!! the hieracy that was is no longer. I speak with mum and dad Rachel Fentiman David Dormer. They're fine. I am amused reading entries some have cracked it, others haven't forgotten but have moved on with life. However there are a few who may be wondering what day it is... come on. live a little, this is no dress rehersal. Stay cool
Guest: Gary W Kinghan
Guest E-mail: gwkinghan@talk21.com
City, Country: Barnard Castle Co Durham United Kingdom
Date & Comments: August 19, 2002
I am a mature fulltime student undertaking an MBA at Durham University in the UK and as part of my Dissertation, I am studying the formation of Strategic Business Alliances, within which I have identified a group of alliances within the Exclusive Brethren Fellowship.
Whilst I can identify that there are self imposed rules and guidance on business issues i.e. the beneficial levels of trust that come about through dealing with fellowship members etc, I would be keen to understand the wider implications and guidance that comes through the teachings and that are inherent within the Brethren, i.e. not competing with each other, staying with ones own regions, the implicit levels of trust, security of payments and the use of worldwide contacts etc.
I need to be able to document a brief couple of paragraphs on the business etiquette and discipline that aid the brethren business community and as such any help or advice or referrals to information sources, you can offer will be gratefully received.
Gary Kinghan.
Guest: Peter Day
Guest E-mail: peterday@clear.net.nz
City, Country: Palmerston North New Zealand
Date & Comments: August 20, 2002
Hi I was brought up in the exclusive brethen until the age of six when both my parrents and my sister robyn left leaving behind aunties and cousins. Since then a few of my cousins who have left that I would love to contact. So if you are anyone that knows the Garton famiy (Leonie, Terrance or Desmaond) that are out I would love to contact them or visa versa. Can any one help?
I am related to the Whittens, Bauckhams, Curry's, Whycherly's to name a few.
Thanks
Peter Day
Guest: Peter Steedman
Guest E-mail: petesaura@aol.com
City, Country: Devon. UK
Date & Comments: August 21, 2002
I haven't heard from my family for 17 years and I would be interested to know whether my father and/or mother are still alive. They are John and Cynthia Steedman..local at Salisbury.Wiltshire since 1965." Can anyone give me any info please? I haven't received a visit yet? But I will at least be prepared if they do.
Guest: Elaine Hanley nee Fry
Guest E-mail: bobedhan@localnet.ocm
City, Country: Blooming Glen PA
Date & Comments: August 22, 2002
My maiden name was Fry, daughter of deceased John and Carolyn Fry and neice of deceased Sam and Noreen Fry, Philadelphia, PA. To those who emailed, I apologize for not responding. Although, this entry is mainly directed to EBs who monitor this site, when pointing a finger at others, I have 3 pointing at me. Remember 2 Timothy 3:16. Isaiah 5 verses 20-25 reads: Woe unto them who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and intelligent in their own esteem! Woe unto them that are mighty for drinking wine, and men valiant to mix strong drink; who justify the wicked for a bribe, and turn away the righteousness of the righteous from them! Therefore as a tongue of fire devoureth the stubble, and dry grass sinketh down in the flame, their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust; for they have rejected the law of Jehovah of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore is the anger of Jehovah kindled against his people, and he hath stretched out his hand against them, etc. For all this his anger is not turned away, and his hand is stretched out still.
Guest: Gerry Spiers
Guest E-mail: gerryspiers@fsmail.net
City, Country: Worcester, England
Date & Comments: August 22, 2002
I was part of the peebies that withdrew from the jims in 1970 - never knew what we were "officially" known as, but I left it all behind in 1984. Life is much better without it!! It would be great to hear from anyone who knew me - I was local in Defford as a kid.
Guest: Dave Tomkins
Guest E-mail: tomkinsd@aol.com
City, Country: Pershore, Worcs UK
Date & Comments: August 23, 2002
Just found this site, as an ex it's very interesting I read on
Guest: Jim Garvie
Guest E-mail: jimgarvie66@hotmail.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: August 23, 2002
First, thanks for all the comments I recieved, especially from "S". Things have moved on from then, I see my Parents sometimes, last time I was there my sister and her family mysteriously appeared, I was livid. If they think that will encourage me back, using emotional blackmail, they are very wrong. Also I got an e-mail from a friend who has been out for years, his father (still in) was one who came to see me, and he actually told his son that he had seen me and was not impressed. Priests lips keeping knowledge-I don't think! The brethren are aware of my alcoholism (been sober for 16 months and counting!) They say if I went back I could help all those who have the same problem, and believe me there are many of them.
I am told that it is because they "have no other release". Which I can quite understand.
The problem as I see it is that they are on a treadmill of unremmiting boredom, they have no freedom of choice, and they know that they are trapped in that way of life, and they have not got the guts to break away.
If you are not totally commited to that way of life, it can be a form of hell at times, they do NOT preach forgivness. Prison is only a prison if you notice the bars.
Guest: Anonymouse (will leave email)
Guest E-mail: spartzen@hotmail.com
City, Country: Northern Ireland
Date & Comments: August 23, 2002
I found your site very interesting. As someone who grew up with the Brethren (but was never one of the clan - I'm keen to come back and read some more).
I read with interest the quirky stories etc, I identified with most of that. I have looked at some of the very early histories of the brethren, and the various movements that came together to bring it into being, the early days up to the Plymouth trials and the split between open and exclusive brethren.
Although I never accepted their doctine and I must be a shame on my family (all still heavily involved). I have the utmost respect for the church. They never showed me anything but kindness. I may not live as a Christian but I have a knowledge of the bible I would not have got anywhere else, I believe I have an understanding of the world, only that type of unbringing can give.
Guest: Robert & Robyn Pilcher
Guest E-mail: beaulinga@cnl.com.au
City, Country: Mulwala (N.S.W) (Originally Bendigo)
Date & Comments: August 23, 2002
Haven't written in a long time but would like to say hello to Daniel Archer from Brisbane. I was from Nambour and used to spend a lot of time at his home. My husband Robert was from Bendigo in Vic. It is very hard at first cut off from your family but life must go on and you sit back and see how sad they really are. Please get in touch with us would love to hear from you.
Guest: Andrew Tchappat
Guest E-mail: atchappa@bigpond.net.au
City, Country: Tasmania
Date & Comments: August 26, 2002
Hi there,
I was wondering if anyone knows there where abouts or email address of Cathy Layton I remember her from my time in the brethren and would like to contact her to say hello. Regards Andrew Tchappat My email is atchappa@bigpond.net.au
Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: john@johnweightman.charitydays.co.uk
Date & Comments: August 28, 2002
Please note change of e-address as above. Best wishes to all my friends out there.
John
Guest: S
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: August 29, 2002
Hi Jim and all else
Thanks for keeping us all posted. Was wondering how u were doing with the family.
They do rather specalise in emotional blackmail don't they? Am constantly gobsmacked at their short memories. Am now beginning to find it amusng how soon they have lasped back from being awfully sorry about the fact that we may have been dealt with 'inappropiately' to good old fashioned orders to 'come home at once to the true position I belong', am quite relieved, was struggling a little to undestand the new found humbleness, nice to se them acting in the old way we know and understand!
Glad u r not falling for the line about coming back to help those in, it appears to be a tack they are takng with quite a few of us, some amateur attempt at psychlogy in making us feel needed inside he fellowship. I can only imagine they think it appeals to our egos.
Keep smiling, let us know how u r doing from time to time.
Take care
S
Guest: P.T.
City, Country: Canada
Date & Comments: August 30, 2002
Oops!
With all the relaxing of past rules, the previous world leaders as men of God must not have been infallible after all.
I wonder whether any of the adherents actually think about things like this, or is it still the meek followers of the current leader - remember that according to them, these leaders are in direct succession from the apostles and speak the "truth". Maybe the turning of a corner is bringing them back to reality(?)- but I doubt it!
Guest: Russ McDonald
Guest E-mail: Russ.McDonald@gems2.gov.bc.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC Canada
Date & Comments: August 30, 2002
Regarding the aspect of Cult members contacting those that were expelled and asking them to consider returning... Hey, how come nobody has contacted me? I was kicked out... but nooooooooo, no calls, no letters. I'm starting to get a complex on this, darn it all. I want an entreaty to return too! It's not fair! I think I'll hold my breath and stamp my little feet until some Local Leading Light from this Rock in the Pacific gets ahold of me and gravely beckons me back. It would be so nice for me to be able to tell them to... er....advise them of my thoughts on that matter...! :)
Guest: Damien Lochrane
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: September 1, 2002
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
Date & Comments: September 1, 2002
A very interesting quote on "What's New?" from BDH on FAX machines. To understand it, you need to know that historically brethren have always frowned on any new technology- 75 years ago they banned air travel based on the reasoning that the devil was the "prince and power of the air"
I suggest the real reason PB leaders ban fax machines and computors is to limit communication between members, preventing them from comparing notes and locating like minded folks who share their own concerns who then might rise up and depose them. All dictators do this, it is the common denominator of all totalitarian organizations
Limiting communication is also the reason they "shut up " folks- in some cases when there has been some family problem- they cut them off from the only support system they know at the time they need it most. However, it does serve the purpose of instilling fear into the ranks and maintaining their power.
Christianity? Not even a whiff, but then again they don't need Christ in their system- He would only get in the way
Guest: Karen Taylor (nee Thornett)
Guest E-mail: d-ktaylor@supanet.com
City, Country: Tunbridge Wells, England
Date & Comments: September 1, 2002
We left the EB's in 1977. I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone who remembers me.
Guest: Richard Green
Guest E-mail: richard@greensubcastle.wyenet.co.uk
City, Country: Salisbury, England
Date & Comments: September 2, 2002
The quotation (September 1, 2002), from the printed ministry of Bruce Hales, dated July 20, 2002 on the subject of fax machines, appears to contradict the earlier report (June 17, 2002):-
“I'm told that BDH has recently said he doesn't see much wrong with mobile phones or fax machines.”
Where does the later pronouncement leave mobile phones? The whole text is very poor English. For example, the word “see”, at the beginning of three of the sentences, appears to bear no relation to what follows. The key sentence is:-
“I think that, why can't I have a mobile phone?”
Similarly, the words “I think that” bear no relation to the rest of the sentence and the meaning is far from clear. Conceivably, it might mean “A mobile phone – why not?”, in other words, “There is no reason why can't I have a mobile phone.” However, in the context of what follows on the subject of fax machines, it surely means that mobile phones remain banned. In the hypothetical pleas, a fax machine is made to seem more innocuous than a mobile phone but is absolutely ruled out. So, a fortiori, is a mobile phone.
Guest: David MICHAEL
Guest E-mail: serpico@cwcom.net
City, Country: London, United Kingdom
Date & Comments: September 2, 2002
Best wishes
Guest: Eleanor Wills
Guest E-mail: eleanorwills@bigpond.au.com
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: September 3, 2002
I've just visited the guestbook after a long absence and as I scanned the latest page I felt an urge to write a note of encouragement. For those of you who are struggling - time will heal. I left the PB's in 1970 and today I can honestly say that I don't give them a thought.
It's wonderful when one gets to the stage of closure - and I truly hope you experience that freedom soon.
Guest: Vanessa
Date & Comments: September 3, 2002
Had a laugh last week. On Tuesday night I was looking at a sight seeing programme and couldn't believe what I saw. Having a look around Mangatarato?? In the North of New Zealand. Sorry the spelling isn't great on that name. The young guys did a tour called the Brethren tours, hehehe.
They said they are full of them. Showed shopping hanky heads and went down to the cult centre and went round and round. They actually managed to go inside with the camera and found some old members there. Made up pretend wanky backy and offered it to them.
I have never laughed so much. I couldn't believe it.
Cheers Vanessa
Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: September 3, 2002
Hi Vanessa
I'd love to see that programme, but the NZ language doesn't make sense to all of us. What the .... is 'wanky backy'?
luv Gerard
Guest: Anonymous (family member's employer is one)
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: September 3, 2002
In reference to Vanessa's mention of the magazine type programme on TV showing the Brethren in Maungataroto and inside their church....word is out and they are trying to obtain a video copy with a view to suing....this advice from a member. Heavens knows how they can watch it without TV or video machines and even if they managed wouldn't it be breaking one of their most well known and strongest of rules!
Guest: Andy Giles
Guest E-mail: andygiles@classicfm.net
City, Country: WORTHING, UK
Date & Comments: September 3, 2002
Just a comment on Richard Green's remarks, the 'ministry' is currently printed almost completely verbatim, the editor only puts in the punctuation, (and cuts out anything BDH doesn't want printed!) If he were to change anything to make it grammatically correct he could easily be accused of 'changing' the ministry. This is a very serious crime, I think JHS labelled it a sin against the Holy Spirit. Historicly the editors have often ended in deep trouble. Hense the current appalling grammer! When I left 4 years ago the editor was Mr Morrish Snr (can't remember his first name) of London UK but that may well have changed with the change in leadership.
Regards to all, Andy
Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
Date & Comments: September 4, 2002
Andy Giles comments on "changing the ministry" identify's one of the key flaws of PB's-their teaching- going way back to JT.sr-is deemed to be "authoritative", a direct communication from God-tantamount to putting "ministry"on the same grounds as scripture.
Once this extremely dangerous concept was introduced and accepted- the door was wide open for any "wind of doctrine"-without scriptural verification [the "current voice of the Spirit"] That lends credence to the charge [if true] of editing being a sin against the Spirit.
You can see where an erronous concept, left unchallenged takes root and grows, leading to the present very sad and disasterous situation-a whole "man made ministry" has emerged, out of controll and totally unchecked by the Word of God. I hate to use the word "heresy" but it has many earmarks of it.
Guest: Geoff Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@gardinerg.freeserve.co.uk
City, Country: Birmingham U.K.
Date & Comments: September 4, 2002
Dearie me, - my great-uncle would be turning in his grave. Probably still is.
Guest: Cecilie Palmer
Guest E-mail: wncs@watchdog.net.nz
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: September 4, 2002
Wow, Vanessa, what did you see? Please tell, what was the programme - what channel? What was it called? Would love to try and get to see it.
Don't know how to contact you directly, so will have to post this here. Luv and hugs, Cec
Guest: Vanessa
Guest E-mail: @
Date & Comments: September 5, 2002
To Gerard
Whaky backy is dope. Another word is pot.
Vanessa
Guest: anon
Date & Comments: September 5, 2002
I doubt if the hanky heads would be able to sue as the people didn't do anything wrong and they were not told to leave or anything. There was nothing wrong with what they did. A good laugh. Another viewer.
Guest: caitlin stevens
City, Country: nz
Date & Comments: September 5, 2002
the show was havoc and newsboys sellout tour tv2 10.00 tues was a laugh recognised some faces
Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, CT. USA
Date & Comments: September 5, 2002
Greetings,
Does anyone know about EB's purchasing insurance on their meeting rooms? It is not a homeowners policy to cover fire, personal property loss and liability on the building. They want to purchase liability insurance on the building in the event they are sued. This is happening in a big city on the east coast of USA. Allstate insurance turned them down. (I thought EB's didn't have insurance. When did that change?)
Only by grace, Victor
Guest: Brando.W.Lee
City, Country: Perth, Western Australia
Date & Comments: September 6, 2002
Guest: David Macdonald
Guest E-mail: DavidAMacdonald@aol.com
City, Country: New Jersey, USA
Date & Comments: September 7, 2002
Thanks for your wonderful work Mr. Wyman.
I have a small request:
Does anyone have any contacts or recommendations for any special Doctor's who provide therapy for cult issues and deprogramming? Obviously, many of the Doctor's are competent, but the most of them don't fully understand the impact our lives have been twisted and controlled by our upbringing and what it takes to clean the slate and live free. Thanks. Dave
Guest: Anon
City, Country: Anonville, Anonshire
Date & Comments: September 6, 2002
Hello - nice to be back.
I feel it is necessary to offer a semblance of vocabulary correction as our young friends from 'down-under' are having a wee problem with weed:
The term is 'Wacky Baccy' aka 'reefer' aka 'grass' aka 'weed' aka 'pot' aka 'marijuana' aka ILLEGAL-IN-MOST-PLACES.
(Columbian Gold goes for about £120/quarter in North London - what is the price in NZ?)
Guest: Elaine Elliott (Garton)
Guest E-mail: e_suz@hotmail.com
City, Country: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
Date & Comments: September 6, 2002
Left in 1977 no lookin back, enjoying life to the full. Love the freedom. Have no contact with family whom are still "in". Mother (Maureen Garton) died Nov 2001. Same day as George Harrison. Divorced with 2 Awesome children (30 & 27), thankful they werent involved with the EB's. Would absolutely love to hear from previous members. Please email me.
All the best
Elaine Elliott (Garton) EX EB & PROUD!!
Guest: Des Subritzky
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: September 7, 2002
What a sad hypocritical bunch of deluded people.
Guest: Peter Steedman
Guest E-mail: petesaura@aol.com
City, Country: Devon. UK
Date & Comments: September 9, 2002
Just replying to query about Doctor or therapy that helps to deal with cult issues etc. I am a Qualified Clinical Hypnotherapist, and I found that the techniques learnt on my training were invaluable for dealing with my issues of Guilt, Hurt,anger etc..having been told to leave overnight in 1985. I can't recommend a therapist in your country..all I can say is that hypnotherapy was a painless way on moving forward in a positive direction. In anyone would like any more information or has any questions about it...feel free to email me. Regards Pete
Guest: Karen Taylor (nee Thornett)
City, Country: Tunbridge Wells, England
Date & Comments: September 9, 2002
Richard Walker thanks for getting in touch. I think I took down your number wrong as Dad has been unable to contact you. Please could you call again. Many thanks Kate
Guest: John Gibbs
Guest E-mail: mandy_gibbs@fastmail.com
City, Country: Johannesburg, South Africa
Date & Comments: September 10, 2002
It must be a bit of a problem trying to get South African XEB's back into the fold. We have heard recently of 2 young people - one in Cape Town and one in Jo'burg who were offered air tickets to visit their families with the view to getting them back but with "no strings attached". One took advantage of the offer and returned to SA after their free overseas visit. Hey, the PB's can't win every time!
Actually Bruce's recruitment drive is a very clever tactic.
(The e-mail address is my daughter's - ours is on the blink at present)
Guest: Sarrah Rowlands
Date & Comments: September 11, 2002
Guest: Catherine Hughes
Guest E-mail: babypandacutie@yahoo.co.uk
City, Country: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Date & Comments: September 11, 2002
I was told by my cousin I could find this site so I came on to find out what was on. You may remember my father Peter Hughes.
Guest: Alan Carvell (Not Anon)
Guest E-mail: alancarvell1@aol.com
City, Country: Dudley UK
Date & Comments: September 11, 2002
Well, well, well after all my moaning about not been contacted by the peeb's!! It’s happened, after 27 years of being out I've had a letter from my brother Pete, 3 phone calls later I'm over to his place Saturday night 14th Sept. 7 p.m. to meet my mother (now 83). I was asked who else I wanted there, what do they want a party? (Might take a bit of 'Wacky Baccy') I was told Phillip Bennett the local leader would be present! How nice! Also my younger brother Tim will be there, (rolling the backy!) So if they do their job properly, I’ll be back breaking bread Sunday morning, but they’ll have one hell of a job stopping me going to the B’ham City V Villa match next Monday night, (so yours prayers again for the Blues folks!)
If you don’t hear from me again then you’ll know what’s happened, I’ve been converted back! So look out, possibly a couple of TV’s, radio’s, a Hi Fi, CD’s, computer, camcorder, mobile phones, 2 Blues season tickets, fax machine, Wife (one careful owner!) & 2 cats, going cheap!!!
Guest: Helio Castroneves
Guest E-mail: helio@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Indiananpolis, Indiana
Date & Comments: September 11, 2002
I have recovered from my amnesia and have rembered that my original meeting was Indianapolis. Please forward a pair of 1st class tickets to enable me to return. I would like to be back in time for the end of the month so that I can watch the Grand Prix in my hometown. Many thanks
Guest: A Trustee
Guest E-mail: Trustee@Ntlworld.com
City, Country: Reading,Berks
Date & Comments: September 11, 2002
Guest: David
Guest E-mail: davidantonyukny@yahoo.co.uk
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: September 11, 2002
Beloved ex- (and some still) Brethren (said seriously, not cynically!): I've read a great quantity of the contributions on this site and thought about them, not a few of them from people I remember. To all of you who are NOT sincerely confused, hurt, frightened lonely, broken, broken-hearted or in need of Christ's real love and presence, (or maybe just a true companion and love in your lives), or, through His grace and your asking for it, have become deeply aware in yourselves of his real love and total presence, and are trying to give that love to others, or who have sincere hope and faith; and who ARE secretly feeding off senses of injustice and distant grievance, or - worse - your righteousness in having left, or even, heaven forbid - malicious pleasure at persons who discomfited you now, or at some time, being since discomfited in the Exclusives, I ask you and warn you as a lesson in humility to compare yourselves both with Jesus Christ and with Christians who have really suffered for, or fought for the faith, and then see how you feel about yourselves. I was in the Exclusives until 1973, in Sydney and elsewhere, and met and spoke to John Hales and this Bruce Hales and a number of others, including relations, at my mother's burial there (not far from her grave) in the late 80's. I deeply regret now I did not speak with more wisdom and perhaps more discernment on that one opportunity, but I was grief-stricken and exhausted from travelling, and unravelled by trying to hide my grief at a public occasion, so the only thing I said (almost) was 'SHE IS WITH CHRIST', and the only reason I was prompted to say that so swiftly and vehemently to JSH and the others was because just 4 days earlier, as she was literally dying, a Greek priest who hardly knew her, but who knew by deep instinct exactly what her soul was crying just to hear at that hour of death, simply and confidently asked each saint in turn, and then Christ Himself, to welcome 'our dear sister' into their midst. At which point, hearing the words 'our dear sister', she had no more fear, and immediately died. I saw with my own eyes in that moment something open in heaven, like a hole of light, where she had been looking so anxiously, far, far away. Rejected as a 'sister' in life by the 'saints', she was certainly taken home to the real saints as a real sister forever and ever.
Heaven puts all of us in perspective about ourselves. In my own church millions upon millions were shot, tortured, starved, beaten, or died of cold between 1917 and 1953, and a bishop I know and love here in London, of great ability and with a joyous, peaceful mind and face saw his own father taken out and shot in front of their house when he was 12. Just as Christ pleads eternally before His Father, I firmly know by my experience that millions of martyrs are there who love us and help us (and from the whole new dispensation back to Stephen, the very first)and all of you know that without them the church, and therefore the Exclusive Brethren, would not even exist. Indeed, as far as we know, all the Brethren in Russia died solely for their faith.
On September 11, of all days, think about the incalculable grief of the whole world and about how many are longing to have or even just to hear about the love of God. Shame on all of us, whether 'in' or 'out' who have so much knowledge of grace, and yet are so self-obsessed, often so bitter, and inward-looking - and I'm sometimes the very worst!!
Lastly, on a lighter note, just in case you all think this is all a bit rich, and considering the mental confusion I and many other young or ex-young ex-peebs have (had) in sorting themselves out and adjusting over a period to life in the open world, St Philip Neri, who lived in Rome at the most corrupt period of the papacy (Borgias, etc.) loved young people. He would go to parties in his rags where all the young Roman aristos were snogging each other, drinking too much and generally behaving badly (familiar?!). Instead of killing the fun with disapproval he used to dance with them, saying: 'Enjoy yourselves, just DON'T offend God'. It is said the young rich Romans loved him deeply, and he brought hundreds to Christ by his example and humility. I wish we'd had that joy and that authority - true humility that comes from a life of prayer and sacrifice - in the Brethren. Still, it's in the bible, and that's where one finds the most vivid examples. And I've had the rare privilege of meeting one or two in my life who walked, thought, prayed and lived almost exactly as they did in the times of the New Testament. It was too frightening, in the sense that Christ was 'frightening' because He is also God, for me even for me to tell you what it was like. Some of my dearest friends know.
Warmest greetings to the few I remember, and the other 30,000 or so I grew up with.
David
Guest: Vanessa
Date & Comments: September 12, 2002
To Des Subrikzy
What did you mean by what a sad hypercritial bunch of deluded people? Did you mean exclusive brethren or did you mean the ex members who have been saved from hell and have their freedom now? These people also find family through here that they have maybe never known or haven't seen for years and sometimes this site helps others by telling their stories and hopefully this helps others cope with the rejection of their abnormal families who don't really know what real christianity is. Families that have been brainwashed unfortunately.
Guest: Peter Harrison
Guest E-mail: peter.pan3399@virgin.net
City, Country: Derby. UK.
Date & Comments: September 13, 2002
Having belonged to the biggest religious show for 29 years and seen some of the greatest EB stars fall, once out of the EB's I got on to the real stage. Now starring in Andrew Lloyd Webbers 'EVITA' at the Theatre Royal Nottingham. UK Tues 5th Nov - Sat 9th Nov Evening 7.15pm Matinee on Wednesday & Saturday at 2.30pm For tickets ring the box office 0115 989 5555 Come and hear those wonderful songs, Don't cry for me Argentina, Another Suitcase in another Hall, Oh What a Circus and Rainbow High.
Guest: Francis Mortyn
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: Southern California
Date & Comments: September 13, 2002
Eleanor suggests that time alone can heal, but if I may I will offer another suggestion: Excel at forgiving. Imagine ea