Exclusive Brethren Information Guestbook Page 23

This page contains entries 1101 through 1150 in the guestbook. Entries were made from March 11 through June 26, 2002.

These names and addresses are posted to enable people to contact friends and loved ones. Please do not exploit this information for commercial purposes.

Guest: Daniel Archer
Guest E-mail: aussiedanny@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane Australia
Date & Comments: March 13, 2002
I left the brethren in 1980, it was one of the best things I ever did, but the hardest of which you would be able to understand. I have really never been able to make a lot of 3friends as all I knew was of the brethren. I found it very difficult as a child, they appeared to be very two faced, not all of them just the ones that seemed to be in charge. I missed my family a lot but have managed to move on in life. I have missed many people I grew up with, sad but very true, it would be nice to hear how everyone is going, all well I hope. Well I have got on with my life now. I am now working with a very understanding boss of which I have tried to tell him what went on in the earlier part of my life, but as you would understand he finds it difficult to understand. Well maybe I may hear from some of my old friends. Well thanks for giving me the chance to catch up.

Bye bye for now

Daniel Archer

Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: pjfrench@celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: March 14, 2002
I was quite interested to read Daniel's comments about friends etc..

This is a problem a lot of us face - we shunned those who would have befriended us in our growing years as students, and then later in our work/professional development years. Later when we are outcast, where do we go and how do we make friends then, when the social structure around us has been developed without a place for us?

Maybe that is why some of us never really 'leave' the PB type environment, as we are so conditioned socially, that as with a policeman or a priest, there really is nowhere else to go - except maybe to the bottle? In all seriousness, with not knowing films, music, sports teams, a bar maybe is what we think that we relate to best.

I tried that and it cost me my marriage and my family, so take the tip - PB's dont drink like the rest of the world - in fact PBS don't really do anything like the rest of the world ... so it is a complete reacculturation process.

There are some support systems around, but we have to take it very slowly and quitely, because WE are the odds ones - not the rest of the world. Our social ineptness is hard to adjust. My life partner of 12 years, a loving and very understanding Roman Catholic divorcee, understands and sympathises to a degree ... and then tries to explain and 'excuse' my difference to guests. I have accepted what she believes, that in some areas I will always have a PB attitude - what a pity, but a reality.

By the way, I am an alcoholic, and haven't had a drink for 7 years, but life is still a day at a time. THAT I could never say as a PB! Some of you will understand ... and some will sit in judgement.

That is life.

Peter

Guest: Alison Clarke
3 Guest E-mail: jaclarke@Globe.net.nz
City, Country: Christchurch, New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 15, 2002
I left the EB's in 1973 along with my sister and parents (Bevan & Francis Gray), also my grandparents (Victor and Alice King) and grandmother (Doris Gray). Would love to say hi to any of you who knew our family.

Guest: confused
Guest E-mail: withheld
City, Country: London, UK
Date & Comments: March 15, 2002
Hi one and all.

Rather confused. Left about 10 years ago as a 15 year old. We all have a million and one reasons why so won't go into it, but there was a severe personality clash between and the local lead, needless to say it was a battle I lost! However, having had mnimal to no contact with anyone from home, I have just been called by my dad, (the first time ever since I left) to say that the family would like to see me. Nothing is wrong, no-one is dying, but there is a new thing going on, and it means they would like to see me. Obviously I am confused and blown away. Not sure if I want to, but the same time torn by the oppotunity to see my family. They have even said I can see some other relatives! Having been treated as the devil incarnate for some time I am finding this change more than unbelievable. They have even agreed when I stipulated that I would not see the priest who is the local lead, which before resulted in a tirade about my problems with Gods authority etc.

Has this happened to anyone else? Is it part of the new regime, I remember reading something about it a while ago?

Thanks for any input. Hope you are all well, I rarely contribute but read this site loads, the fact that you are all out there has kept me going through so many dark times, Thank you

sx

Guest: Anon
Guest E-mail: withheld
Date & Comments: March 16, 2002
at 04:57:42 I normally do not write anonymously or suppress my address but I, too, have recently been contacted about my parents and I do not wish to "queer the pitch." Some will recognise the story.

I do not believe anything has changed. I will believe it when they publicly say that all that they preached regarding splitting up families was fundamentally wrong. If there are apparent changes you can be assured that there is a hidden agenda.

Best wishes.

Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: March 16, 2002
) on Saturday, at 09:15:59 A number of "ex pb's" have reported a "change" in the PB attitude towards ex members, and they seem to be attempting to establish contact with those they did not even recognise. This is not to say they have changed their attitude in the least, they still are carrying on with their self serving cult like mentality, a misrepresentation of the gospel which denies the basic principles of Christianity our Lord not only taught, but showed during His ministry. Nothing has changed, and I know of no one who has taken up their offer to rejoin, but on the other hand, I do welcome the opportunity to ask after the welfare of my relatives and friends- to whom I bear no ill will at all. It is they who have been so dreadfully decieved, and we need to continue to pray for them.

Guest: Geoff Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@intercity-epp.com
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: March 16, 2002
In response to Daniel; Welcome to the lion's den

In response to Peter: I empathize with you mate

Guest: Anonymous
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: March 16, 2002
In response to the young man in England, who has been approached by his father in relation to a visit by the family, please leave all options open. I believe that there are several local leaders in the Country who are currently confined by the brethren, who do not agreee with the way the system is operating. Therefore, it may be possible that your father's motives are very different to what you may be expecting. Whatever the case, you have nothing to lose by allowing yourself to see them. All the best.

Guest: Charles Turner
Guest E-mail: charlesandrewturner@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: March 17, 2002
Just a quick note to the 25 year old who left when he was 15. I had a very similar experience. I left the PB's at 18 in 1984. Basically, I got withdrawn from for something I hadn't done. A incidence severely embellished by the local bosses. The final report sent to that man in Niche, bore no resemblance to what had taken place.

Looking back, it was an absolute gift - it clarified for me pretty quickly the system was wrong and meant I was able to get the pre-conditioned guilt out of my system quicker. (Also there were numerous other PB crimes I could have been ejected for and it would only have been a matter of time before I was caught).

So after the usual struggles (accommodation, money, jobs, social misfit) I left the town I lived in, went and get myself educated in London and began a career. Nine years later I was living with a girlfriend in an address they didn't know. Then, suddenly a letter comes through the post. It was really wierd. It was along the lines that the way I had been ejected was wrong, without saying the ejection was wrong. (Note: I don't like to use PB vocabulary). It also went on to say they would welcome me back into the big 'F'. I took this to mean that if I toed the line I could be back with the lot of them in a couple of weeks. (what an invitation!!!)

I didn't bother to reply!

Then a few months later my father and mother turn up at my door. They refuse to come into my house and ask me to go to their car. I decide to hear what they have to say. They say they hear I have been living with a girl and should be married. They demand I get married 'today'. They point out that a local registrar office is open. They are both very frightened. (I left the car immediately). However, my girlfriend who was very inquisitive spent a few minutes talking to them and came back very upset. Evidently she tried to understand how they could be so callous in cutting off their own children and got the usual diatribe.

At some stage later, I heard that the local hierachy had changed. The oppressed became the oppressors, so I guess they reviewed some old cases.

Not sure that this is any help apart from the fact that they sometimes act wierder than we know them to be.

Guest: Mathew R
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: March 17, 2002
I refer to the comments about being approached by relatives who wish to discuss with us something new, or words to that effect. I went along with the suggestion only to be bombarded with all sorts of nonsense.

There may be soon a new "elect vessel" and perhaps there is a bit of a leadership vacuum at present and hence these overtures.

In my case, it was a complete fabrication - nothing has changed and nothing will. This is a very insidious odious cult - have no doubt about it.

Guest: Will
City, Country: Stratford-upon-Avon
Date & Comments: March 18, 2002
To leave, or not to leave,--that is the question:--
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous edicts,
Or to take arms against a sea of Peebs,
And by opposing end them?--To leave,--To sleep,--
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks
That ex-Peebs are heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wisht. To die,--to sleep;--
To sleep! perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that wonderful exit, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled through that closed door!
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so much waste;
For who would bear the whips and scorns so long,
The oppressor's wrong, the levite stupidity,
The pangs of lost family, the ignorance,
The insolence of upstarts, and the confusion
That arrives when the first light 'tis glimpsed,
And realization dawns of greater freedom
With a clear conscience? Who would such burdens bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the joy of knowing there is something else,--
The undiscover'd country, from whose bourn
Those free rejoice, -- but unknown fear,
Makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought;
And the chance of life and a new dawn,
With this regard, is placed on hold,
And lose the name of action.

Guest: Steve Ballard
Guest E-mail: sballard@interchange.ubc.ca
City, Country: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date & Comments: March 18, 2002
In response to the 25 year old man in London:

I left the EB in 1988, at age 18, in circumstances that are remarkably similiar to yours. I married in 1991 and have two children. I also obtained two university degrees and became a Barrister & Solictor (1999). I had no meaningful contact with any members of my family from 1988 - 1997. In 1997 and 2000 my parents contacted me and came to visit me. Their comments echoed the recent comments your parents have made. In particular, they advised me that my "case" had been mishandled by the "priests". They also advised that my family & I were essentially welcome to rejoin the brethren (subject only to me renouncing my membership in the Law Society).

It has become obvious to me that the EB have entered a period in which some rules have been relaxed, whereas in the period from 1953 - 1997 (or so) rules were heaped upon rules. Certainly, in the time period from 1970 - 1997, it would have been unthinkable for my parents to have been allowed to visit me without a "priest". I don't know why or how this "softening" has occurred, but I can say that it is my opinion that the underlying nature of this group, which seeks to control members thoughts and behaviour using unacceptable techniques, has not changed.

I met with my parents to see them again and hopefully to show them that I am not "a miniature prototype of the man of sin" (as I had been labelled by the local lead). I did not expect to, and probably didn't, make any inroads into loosening their faith in a man - made belief system. I did enjoy their visits and they helped me cope with the emotional pain of losing my family. I declined my parents' invitation to meet with them on a weekly basis if I was interested in "getting right". While it was an attractive offer in the sense that I would be able to see my parents weekly, I was unable to justify that level of dishonesty.

Please feel free to email me if you wish.

Guest: Charles Barrett
Guest E-mail: cande.charles@virgin.net
City, Country: Ryde, Isle of Wight, UK
Date & Comments: March 18, 2002
Can anyone tell me what happened to A.J. Gardiner? Was he withdrawn from in the 1970s and if so what was his alleged misdemeanour? I last saw him in 1972 when I spent the weekend with him at his home in Streatham.

I used to attend Rochford Street, North London meeting/Park Street City Room, then Finchley/Barnet City Room during the years 1949 - 1970. From 1970 until I left in 1975 with my wife, Elizabeth, nee Pridham, and our young family, we went to Newport meeting, Isle of Wight.

Guest: Confused
Guest E-mail: withheld
City, Country: Uk
Date & Comments: March 18, 2002
Hi again

Thank you for all your replies. I found out that the priest involved in my departure has been in trouble for his part in it, to what extent I do not know. As many of you have suggested this means that they may say there was an improper element to me being kicked out, and so now I can go back!!!

You will all understand how amusing, yet sad that is. For my parents' sake alone I am glad that the truth is coming out. For me I genuinely can say I forgave him so long ago it really doesn't matter anymore.

I am am taking time out to pray, consider and then make a decision whether to see them or not.

One thing I pointed out to my Father is that I would not be coming alone, (Had all sorts of door locking situations in the past to put me of that one!) He asked why I would need someone else there to see my fmaily, from someone who has been unable to see me at all, and as a bare minimum with at least two 'brothers' with him it left me pretty gobsmacked.

Anyway, keep feeding back, will let you know what happens.

sx

Guest: ozanon
City, Country: Oz
Date & Comments: March 20, 2002
Is there a softer approach toward computers? Conversations about emails, computer programmes etc. seem to be heard regularly at this workplace. Any input?

Guest: Anon
City, Country: Queensland, Australia
Date & Comments: March 21, 2002
Re: recent contact by parents who are still in the brethren with their children who are out.

Earlier this month, my husband received a cheque and accompanying explanatory letter from his father. In his father's words, he had been going over past history when he recalled that there was an amount owing to my husband from the time that he worked for him (approx 25 years ago). It had apparently slipped his mind but had been on his conscience lately. He also wrote that we need to have every matter settled before the Lord comes. We also received a sympathetic letter from my husband's father about 14 months ago after one of our children talked to him in the street and told him my husband was having major surgery. Oddly but true to contradictory form, my parents, who are from near Sydney, do not attempt any contact at all, even as far as trying to keep their new address secret from their own grandchildren! I look up this site quite regularly but have'nt signed the guestbook since we left our names a couple of years ago. Keep smiling and regards to all.

Anon

Guest: A Trustee
Guest E-mail: Trustee@ntlworld.com
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: March 21, 2002
EDUCATION ARRANGEMENTS

For the interest of the brethren, here is an update report on the progress of arrangements for the proposed school, if the lord will. Parents have indicated an intention to enrol twelve children for the next school year starting -----------. We have engaged the services of five excellent teachers who are all sympathetic towards our objectives. One of these will also act as headmaster in matters of discipline and co-ordination. The school will initially be run from the upstairs offices at ------------ ---------------------- and there will be two 45 minute lessons in each subject each week, on Tuesday and Thursday mornings. It is in mind that Registration will be at 8.30am and school will finish at I.OOpm. Homework will be set to be done on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Normal school holidays will apply. We are working on equipping the classrooms, providing additional car parking and play area, making administrative arrangements and school rules, arranging for school uniform etc. Offers of help would be much appreciated including for overseeing physical education, educational walks and visits, and instructing small groups of children in extra subjects such as cooking, sewing, woodwork, metal work, typing, technical drawing, art, music, book-keeping, or the like. Please contact -- ------- with any ideas for help. Following our last letter, many generous gifts have been received for which we are very grateful. However a budget deficit of some £10,000 will still remain after receipt of anticipated school fees from the parents. This reflects the cost of high quality teachers, the initial costs of setting up the school and the low fee-income because we have few students in the first year. There will obviously be an ongoing need for financial support and (in addition to single payment gifts) we would be most grateful if all brethren with an income could consider giving by monthly standing order. A gift of say £10.00 a month (only just over £2.00 per week which might hardly be noticed) would be worth up to £154.00 to the Trust over a year. Many may be able to afford more than this. For your convenience if able to help, we enclose standing order and gift aid forms. We count on your prayers and support in seeking to provide suitably the best education we can for our young people.

Any comments? and yes this has been kept very quiet, health and saftey, child welfare, who knows?

Guest: Gabriel Pino
Guest E-mail: gabrielpino@tutopia.com
City, Country: Argentina
Date & Comments: March 21, 2002
Dear Friends:

I have no good news to tell you this time. Fortunately my current situation regarding my relationship with my son is getting better and better so far (thanks to God). Please read "My Own Story" in the Contributions section to realize what I am taking about.-

Many of you have sent lots of mails to me encouraging and supporting me for not give up my struggle in order to help my son deal with the EBs the best possible way. Thanks for all your advises and suggestions, they are all welcome.

This time I apply to your sensitivity to ask you for some help. I confess I feel a little shame for writting these words but I trust will understand my desperate situation:

I lost my job on last October of 2001 and since then had a big hope of getting a new and better job, but the terrible facts that took place in my country (I know you heard about them) on last December, turned my future and present in a very sad situation.

Since these days on, everything turned to worse here and see no improvement in the short term. I'm facing this situation thanks to my sister's economical asistance from Italy. She's living there since ten years ago but things are not that easy for her either so I suddenly thought of asking any of you for some help until I can recover my dignity back. My sister invited me to emigrate to Italy if things don't change in this troubled country of mine, but you will certainly understand that I can't leave my son here with the EBs. We love very much each other and leaving him "alone" here would be the last choice to make for me. I hope things change soon...

Anyway, I also ask you for appologies for this message with doesn't mean to offend you at all. I hope you understand me and do whatever you can in this regard. Anything will be welcome.

Thanks for your support once again and God bless you all.

Gabriel Pino
ARGENTINA
Phone: 0341-4535459
Cel: 0341-155158231
Mail: gabrielpino@tutopia.com

Guest: Andy & Steph White
Guest E-mail: billyroo@lineone.net
City, Country: Devon England
Date & Comments: March 21, 2002
Just a message for an elderly friend whose children she hasn't seen for 32 years! Can anyone give me any news on how they are or what they are up to? Alan Turner & Jean Hughes from Bessacar Doncaster to anyone who knows them. I would be grateful for any info. Thanks
Steph white

Guest: Geoffrey Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@intercity-epp.com
City, Country: Birmingham, England
Date & Comments: March 22, 2002
In response to Charles Barrett 18/3/2002 re AJG Please contact me.

Guest: Caitlin Stevens
Date & Comments: March 23, 2002
BDH has visited New Zealand. A group of EBs from up north hired a plane so they could attend the meeting in Motueka. Is this not an extravagent use of money?

Guest: Caitlin Stevens
Date & Comments: March 23, 2002
Can an EB get married again if his first wife dies?

Guest: Graham John
Guest E-mail:
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: March 23, 2002
Hi All

Great site Dick, though God slay me still I'll trust him, I shall then come forth as gold.

Left the exclusives on principal in the late 60's, just before Aberdeen. Got saved afterwards but now living on a Knifes edge

I have heard a word on Eagle Brethren who mount up on eagles wings, this of course from a non-eb source. Apparently the bones of the eagles legs are hollow, this helps reduce the weight and allows it to utilise the up currents to facilitate take off.

This word was from an American brother non eb as far as I know, whatever, the word was uplifting, he went on to say how the eaglets are pushed out of the nest and how the eagle swo-o-o-ops down and catches the offspring on its back and takes it on up to the nest just to repeat the process, kinda eerie aint it, how the eagle cares for its own. Though I guess from the younguns point of view, it could be quite different. Fearfully and wonderfully made, from the snake to Man, evolution what utter crap. If evolution was true you would logically still see the resulting metamorphosis today. But how great is our God, How great is his Name, he's the greatest God for ever the same, and he is out there, near you, so cast your cares upon him, he will see you through, he has promised, and unlike the jims he don’t lie

Saved by grace and grace alone

Guest: Geoffrey Gardiner
Guest E-mail: Geoff@intercity-epp.com
City, Country: Birmingham, England
Date & Comments: March 23, 2002
Yes, Caitlin Totally agree - and, yes , again, of course. p.s. How do you say cheers in Maori? Cheers . Marama or Turaga?

Guest: Russ McDonald
Guest E-mail: McDonaldClan@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC Canada
Date & Comments: March 24, 2002
Just a quick note to advise you that my e-mail address has changed. Please use this address when corresponding. Thank you.

Guest: Happily Married XEB
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: March 24, 2002
In response to Caitlin re March 23rd entry.

Yes, they do remarry, after all they cannot cook or fend for themselves unless their previous wife trained them well :-)

There have been some rare cases of divorce where the husband has remarried, and the new wife has the pleasant task of being a stepmother.

Guest: Hewison David
Guest E-mail: thehewisons@hotmail.com
City, Country: Reigate England
Date & Comments: March 26, 2002
hello everybody
I left in 1985 and don't regret it.
It was a very hard decision to make back then.
If I can help in any way please don't hesitate to email me.

Guest: Peter Harrison
Guest E-mail: peter.harrison10@virgin.net
City, Country: Derby. UK
Date & Comments: March 28, 2002
A Blessed Easter to everyone visiting this site.

Guest: taz
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 28, 2002
Hi

Just a question that some who have recently left may be able to answer. I left the EB's as a baby with my parents but a sister who went back a few years ago has now married in the church. I go and visit occassionally and the last time we were talking about my family's situation and her husband said it was all part of God's plan. Is this how the church now justifies breaking up families? That God has a plan set out for us all and so it is not really their fault if someone is wrongly withdrawn from as obviously it was part of the masterplan of God's as he knows what is in store for us but doesn't give us more than we can bear?

Great to see so many christians on this site as I have met quite a few exeb who while still believing God exists dont want anything to do with him.

Guest: Peter M Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: March 29, 2002
Does God have a "plan" for us? Of course, He does- or He wouldn't be God, but He also gave us a free will,and not only the ability, but the resposibility to make choices, and the fact is "whatever a man sows, so shall he reap" He has also given us faith- but it is up to us to excercise, indeed our faith is reaconned to us as rightousness, and the only way we can achieve it. As for delving into God's "plan" we can count on one thing- He never goes against His own Word- and when we see churches [any of them] holding out doctrines, that cannot be verified by the scriptures, then you can be pretty sure they are some expediant form of "rules" designed more to keep the congregation in line, and the leaders in power, rather than bringing us closer to the Lord.

Futhermore,checking out how our Lord acted towards the common people [not the religeous elements who hated Him, and indeed whose system He did not fit into] is a pretty good standard to measure anyone, any church, or any action by. And that includes me and you.

Guest: Chris Jones
Guest E-mail: Mangoye@hotmail.com
City, Country: Originally London, UK
Date & Comments: March 29, 2002
If I believed in a god I would certainly of thanked Him for delivering me from this Exclusive Brethren garbage 32 years ago!

Guest: TARN HOW
Guest E-mail: howtanya@hotmail.com
City, Country: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND
Date & Comments: March 29, 2002
My name is Tanya How nee Malcolm of Tauranga. I married Richard How of Christchurch 11 years ago. We were told they had to 'shrink from us' on December 12 2001, as we were having marriage problems! (Don't other people?). That night we were shut-up.

We have 3 girls and 1 boy, aged between 9 years to 3.

It has been very painful, but I believe I am growing stronger towards the Lord as I am myself. I am not having to have a flash meal for visitors, who gobble and go anyway, my kids clothing isn't compared with other kids, my house isn't scrutinized for how clean it is etc.

To the 2 who are almost there in the North island, hey go for it, they say it's a big wide world out there waiting to be explored. That's if you've got money!!!! Cheers
Tarn

Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, Connecticut
Date & Comments: March 30, 2002
Greetings,

Happy Easter to all. "He's Alive and I'm Forgiven, Heavens Gates are Open Wide....."

Only by grace, Victor

Guest: Vanessa Cummings nee Janson
City, Country: Org of Hastings NZ
Date & Comments: March 30, 2002
To Tanja How

Don't think you will remember me but my two brothers Seth, Gustaf and Desiree Powell. My Parents are Leon and Adelheid. I wish you all the best and yes it is a big wide world. But look at it this way. You don't have to live up to other peoples' expectations. You can be yourself. Everyone needs money to survive but even if it is feeding the ducks, biking around the country side, there is lots to do that don't cost that much. I used to live in chch myself. Putting on big meals to feed them hanky heads and having to live up to the fashion in there costs money too. So in the long run think of what you are saved from. I wish you all the best. Enjoy being free and always put a smile on your face. It's fun going camping, swiming at the river, beach and doing those normal things in life. Bye for now vanessa

Guest: Emma
Guest E-mail: runcimem@dcsi.net.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: March 31, 2002
To the person who posted a query from Sydney - Jan 4th 2002.

I read your post with interest - it sounds very much like the group your daughter-in-law is involved is a group known informally as the "2x2s". There is information on the web about the group - if you require further info please feel free to email me.

Regards,

Emma

Guest: Daniel Lee
Guest E-mail: LimeyBrit@aol.com
City, Country: Wisconsin, USA
Date & Comments: March 31, 2002
Dear Taz (28 Mar 02)

You hit upon a really valuable lesson.

Looking for cryptic clues in the tea leaves of life for evidence of a "God's Plan" is as valuable as reading the Horoscopes in the paper. The sooner we take responsibility for our actions and stop being victims to some supernatural claptrap the better off we are emotionally.

Was it "God's Plan" that my mother died when I was a teenager? Or that my father passed away only 14 years after my mother, and before all his children were married, or his grandchildren born? Was it God's plan that my family was excommunicated? What about Hitler? Or bin Laden? These are fruitless questions.

I have had excrutiatingly painful and intense experiences in my short life. They are no more than that. As a result I now have the priviledge of being able to understand things in life that others only get to read about in books.

I also have experienced tremendous joy and excitement, and been places and done things, that had my family still been "in", I would never have achieved.

So what do I make of all this? There is no "Plan". Free will, in Peter's remarks, means to me that we all get to make of it what we want. I choose to be grateful for the enormous amount, and varied nature, of experiences that I am having, and have had, in life (both good and bad), and choose to learn from them. I will repeat the things that worked and avoid the things that didn't.

Good luck with your journey. It's the ride, not the destination, that you get to experience every day, so "be" fully in the moment. Don't live out of the past nor out of some dreamy future. Up here in Wisconsin there will be flowers in the summer to smell. But I have no guarantee that I will be here when it happens. Right now there is snow to ski in/on, maple sap to collect for syrup later, children to read books to, business to be done, folk to love and to be with. I am thankful for today.

So was your family boken up on purpose? We'll never know. But we can make sure that we don't repeat that experiment again in the way we deal with others. Your love and commitment to your sister shines in the face of their nonsense. Keep it up. I think that's what your God would do, right?

All the best,

Daniel

Guest: Nonnie
Guest E-mail: March 31, 2002
City, Country: Aust
Date & Comments: March 31, 2002
Has the new elect vessel been chosen, elected or announced as yet? Praying that freedom will come to those that are bound. May God set all EB's at liberty

Guest: Geoffrey Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@intercity-epp.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: March 31, 2002
Guess that the realisation that we are no different from others is .....

Guest: Stephen Payne
Guest E-mail: stephenpayne@dial.pipex.com
City, Country: Coulsdon, England
Date & Comments: April 1, 2002
just looking

recognised a few old friends

Left myself in 1985

Guest: Daniel Archer
Guest E-mail: aussiedanny@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane/Australia
Date & Comments: April 1, 2002
I have never regretted leaving the peebs. They destroyed my life. They did everthing in their power to make me feel unwanted. I hope those in charge are brought to justice for what they have put me and many others through, my life without a family, inviting me to my father's funeral and making sure we couldn't see our mother. I'll never forgive this bunch of so called believers. I would like to hear from old friends from back then.

Cheers Daniel

Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: pjfrench@celestial.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: April 1, 2002
OK Dick - I am counting down from the 100 words, and thanks for the site - is the content changing slightly or am I?

Tarn's comments reminded me of how materialistic we were as Peebs - your weren't? ... good for you :-)

>From my recollection [possibly wrong -?] material tnings seemed to 
>really matter after separation came in - what sort of car we had, who 
>had a new lounge suite, better dishwasher and so on, and 
>progressed/regressed from there. Maybe it is associated with being 
>unsettled, disturbed ... I have noticed it quite strongly with some 
>Born Again Christians who also become almost avericious.

It is intersting that the cult take the hub caps off their cars, destroy their gardens - as if it matters that much?

I have noticed that material things do not have the same pull that they did previously for me. Maybe it is part of the freedom - the letting go, the re-establishment of our rights as individuals. We have that right and the freedom is ours for the taking. My life partner tells me that I yet have to know true peace - yes, she is right [aren't women always right?]

So I feel very keenly for those still entrapped, and the new wave of 'hale stones' from the new 'hale storm' - the true mark of a cult leader to unsettle, impose new demands, make new rules, punish people - may God give some the courage to leave.

Peter French
almost 20 years free

Guest: Peter
City, Country: Melbourne
Date & Comments: April 2, 2002
Daniel Lee

Great entry Daniel (31/3) re resposibility. The buck stops with us. I left the breths in 1996. I know the pain of separation, but things will never change until we accept RESPONSIBILITY.

This is the ABILITY to RESPOND to situations in our life. The ABILITY to not complain and whinge about how badly I was done by but to learn and move on to better things. Sure we have to learn from the past. However, we can RESPOND by never allowing history to repeat itself in my own situation. We can RESPOND by realising we are the ones that can make a difference and create the future the way it should be...once you accept responsibility the whole power of God is with you. Who knows how many people you can influence positively?

You can count the seeds in an apple, but who can count the apples within a single seed?

Guest: David Johnson
Guest E-mail: davidpjohnson@yahoo.com
City, Country: Dallas, TX, USA
Date & Comments: April 2, 2002
It's been sometime since I've posted here, but I check back so often. I am in the process of researching my family tree. In doing so, I am finding dates of many ancestors and their dates of baptism. How unfortunate it is that the PBs don't keep records of childrens baptisms. I was baptized sometime between my date of birth 9/1971 and 1973, but even my parents don't recall the exact date. When my wife and I went to get confirmed in the Episcopal Church, I couldn't provide that date, but she could since she was a former Baptist. It might be small beans to some, but it is a date I wish I had on record. I know, there's probably some place in the Bible that the PBs have found which outlaws record keeping in the "meetings".

Guest: DAVE FREEMAN
Guest E-mail: dave@wolf79.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: CAMBRIDGE CAMBRIDGESHIRE
Date & Comments: April 3, 2002
I Heard today that the Cambridge brethren have taken a new couple into their flock from the outside! Would this be the open brethren or are the peps changing there rules again?

Two ex members recently informed me that the peps are going through list of people they kicked out to try and get them back if it was ify that they were excluded to start with.

Any coments would be interesting

Regards Dave.

Guest: Angus Adair
Guest E-mail: Killy555557@aol.com
City, Country: Tarbolton, Scotland
Date & Comments: April 3, 2002
Thank God I was brought up in the open brethren!! Incidentally, there seems to be some confusion about the term "plymouth brethren". In my assembly we have always happily accepted the designation (for some strange reason). After perusing the pages of this website however, I shall no longer be doing so, given the sad history of depravity, perversion and heresy contained in it, and the fact that close brethren claim the title for their own. Well they're welcome to it. I've never even been to Plymouth myself! BTW, in my assembly we do not not accept anyone at the lords supper - they require a letter of commendation unless they are well known to the brethren. My sister and husband worship at Bethesda church in Bristol (yes THE Bethesda church) which is now an "evangelical church" with a paid pastor, and they are free to break bread in my assembly without a letter, yet Anglican friends of mine could not, despite being utterly devoted to Christ, and serving him full time in straitened circumstances, which I found sad.

Guest: Gordon Mathison
Guest E-mail: gmathison4954@shaw.ca
City, Country: Langley near Vancouver, Canada
Date & Comments: April 4, 2002
One year ago I entered on this site a posting regarding what was then a marriage breakup, namely, mine. Man had said our differences were unreconcilable. Praise God with Him, all things are possible! Many prayers were answered and two months following the divorce petition, Donna and myself were reconciled. This "battle" truly belonged to the Lord. (The evil one lost yet another!) Thank you all who were concerned and held us in prayer. And thank you Russ in Victoria, B.C., for your personal support and graciousness.

Guest: Francis
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: San Diego, California
Date & Comments: April 4, 2002
Angus Adair's post about excluding godly Anglicans from the Brethren's Table is interesting. I am High Anglican myself (Anglo-Catholic) a member at St. Paul's Cathedral. Each Sunday during the Mass, a priest announces that we here practice "Open Communion." This means, he or she then explains, that you do not need to be committed to Christ, which the local Presbyterians require for communion but what matters among us is that you are on the pathway approaching toward and seeking Him. .. .

Guest: Anom
City, Country: Anom.
Date & Comments: April 4, 2002
What is this, a brethren-bashing site? I'm in an 'exclusive' brethren group (although I don't like the word 'exclusive') and our group is nothing like what some people seem to regard us as - in thinking that ALL exclusive brethren groups are just like the 'Jim Taylor' group...not so! We work, eat, and are friends with others 'outside' our group, and the girls wear 'normal' clothes and make-up too. And most importantly, we don't think that we're the 'only' ones that are going to heaven (as the 'Jims' tend to think), just like all you other Christians out there, we believe that anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and shedding His blood on the Cross for our sins will go to be with Him for eternity!

I just wanted to say that some of the 'exclusive' brethren groups are not nearly so bad as some of you make us out to be!!

Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland CT USA
Date & Comments: April 5, 2002
Greetings All,

Following are some quotes from Daniel Lee's very insightful entry on March 31, 2002. If you have forgotten or missed it, scroll up a bit and read it again.

"The sooner we take responsibility for our actions and stop being victims to some supernatural claptrap the better off we are emotionally."

"I have had excruciatingly painful and intense experiences in my short life. They are no more than that. As a result I now have the privilege of being able to understand things in life that others only get to read about in books."

"It's the ride, not the destination, that you get to experience every day, so "be" fully in the moment."

I liked what Daniel wrote as it reminded me that I made choices that resulted in my being separated from my family. They were correct choices and I am thankful I had the sense to make them back in 1970. I was not a victim of supernatural claptrap. What ever that is.

Daniel did not make any choices in the demise of his family. May I suggest that God did it for him? I think He did.

We all have events in our lives that are special and unique, others only read about them in books. (Our faces are all different too.)

But to "Eat, Drink and be Merry" is not acceptable. At least not for me. There is more. I have a God who is interested in my faith. My faith is much more important than my pain(s).

So I believe in Jesus and God is the justifier of those who believe in Jesus.

Only by grace, Victor

Guest: Elizabeth Ramsay (nee Roach)
Guest E-mail: elizabethrams63@hotmail.com
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: April 7, 2002
Hi,

Well I haven't touch base since I organised a reunion in 1998. I still keep contact with Raphael Aaron - Author of Cults Too Good to be True who was our guest speaker that evening. I still live in Sydney and I am the Daughter of Tom Roach.

Regards

Elizabeth

Guest: John Kennard
Guest E-mail: workwear02@bigpond.com
City, Country: Bathurst Australia
Date & Comments: April 8, 2002
I was talking to the husband of one of my old school teachers yesterday, who proceeded to inform me that the brethren children in New South Wales, Australia, had been requested to leave the public education system, by the end of this year.

Apparently, they have been given two options, conform like everybody else and allow the children to use computers, listen to radio and watch television in the pursuit of their education, or leave. They have chosen the latter, and I have heard that all children regardless of their age will be leaving the public education system by the end of this year. The N.S.W education department is tired of having two systems of teaching, one for the brethren, and one for everybody else. This would probably explain why we have seen them franically rundraising for the new school in Orange about 30 minutes from here, which is called Summer Hill School. Up until now, they have only been teaching secondary school, but from next year they will apparently be taking them from all ages and running bus services daily from places that are more that 40 minutes away. We have also seen several advertisements in our local paper in Bathurst looking for teachers for this new school. The government has probably played right into the EB's hands on this one, as they want to bring their children up in a closed environment, that is as far away from the real world as possible. I think that many teachers in the system would be breathing a sigh of relief as they watch them go.

Guest: Lauryn
Guest E-mail: peaton@e3.co.nz
City, Country:New Zealand
Date & Comments: April 11, 2002
Very interesting website. I have never been in the EBs (I am a Christian Open Brethren) The reason for coming here is to find out about the EBs as my cousin has recently joined and I miss her very much. She was Open Brethren also. She lives in Palmerston North New Zealand and has married so I don't know her married surname. Her name as I knew her was Aileen Zwies.

If anyone has been in the Palmerston North EBs then I would love to hear from them.

I congratulate on your site, it is very interesting and tells the truth.

Lauryn

Guest: Peter Wilson
Guest E-mail: pjwilsy@hotmail.com
City, Country: New York, USA
Date & Comments: April 12, 2002
FEEDBACK WANTED!

I have just caught up with the last few months' entries and am concerned that many of them seem to be an attempt to recruit would-be EB leavers to join the contributors' particular alternative brand of brethren offshoot or other denomination, heavily phrased in 'brethren-speak'.

My original concern was that some EB leavers may feel the only option available is to join some other group (out of the frying pan and into the fire?) when perhaps they have had a gutful of religion and should be aware that to give it all away (and 'go nowhere') is also an option.

But then it occurred to me that some would-be EB leavers may only understand 'brethren-speak' and after years of indoctrination would feel uncomfortable trading a life of religious conformity to religious freedom overnight.

To help me to help future EB leavers, I would appreciate any feedback from EB leavers who have consulted this guest book, with respect to what they have felt helpful and what they have found a hindrance in their leaving process (either publicly here or to my private email address above).

Thanks, Peter.

Guest: Gabriel Pino
Guest E-mail: gabrielpino@tutopia.com
City, Country: Rosario, ARGENTINA
Date & Comments: April 13, 2002
Dear Readers:

I apply to you all in order to invite and ask you to write to my email adrress:

My son has told me lately that his mother seems to be kind of confused regarding her life among the EBs. She seems to hesitate about to leave or stay in the cult. She also told him that she still loves me and that she always will, so I think that maybe she's affraid of making a move on her own.

She's living with my son in their own house since a couple of years and we have a good communication, so I've been thinking of encouraging her to leave this life and join me back to be a real family just the three of us but I thought that if you supported my struggle by writting and cheering her up by me, maybe my words and hope will be even stronger.

I broke definitely with my couple about two months ago so I'm a single 35 years old man that loves his son and that would do anything for him, and I've been feeling weird feelings about my son's mother again ever since. I'm not sure if I still love her after ten years of our separation, but in my mind I have lot's of beautiful memories of our unforgetable love indeed. Maybe our destiny is to be together again after all this time...Who knows...

Please read "MY OWN STORY" in the Opinions/Contributions Section of this site for you to realize how things happend. I promise I'll give her all your advises and supporting words to encourage her to make a choice once again. I mean the right one this time.

Please, pray for the three of us to have the chance of being a family as God planned it ten years ago for my son's sake.

My son is 9 years old now and I'd like things to change in his life since he's living in two opposite worlds at the same time. I pray to God for him to help us get to a good end in this sad story that we're living since long ago.

Thanks to everybody and don't leave me alone...

Greetings,

GABRIEL PINO

Guest: Lucy Ward nee Labett
Guest E-mail: fistralspa@aol.com
City, Country: Isle of Wight now living in Cornwall
Date & Comments: April 13, 2002
I only knew of this site a few days ago, but have found it so interesting. I left the "peebs" in 1984. I have never felt any need to join any other group I had enough of that for 24 years. I admire any one leaving young as it takes awhile to adjust to a normal life. I had a husband then but we are now divorced. I would love to hear from anyone who remembers me or knows my brother Roger and sister Sarah, who I believe are still in. Also any one from Portsmouth or Southampton who has left since me. My children are now 22, 20 and 19, they have had phonecalls, letters etc. from my parents which they have found very hard to understand. The hardest thing I have found was bringing up a family without the extended family for help and advice whilst knowing they are alive. Hope to hear from someone soon!!!!

Guest: unknown
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: April 14, 2002
The pb's should butt out once they have thrown their kids out.

Guest: Philip & Ruth Mills (Hedger)
Guest E-mail: phil&ruthmills@witterings.fslife.co.uk
City, Country: Uckfield E.Sussex
Date & Comments: April 16, 2002
We left in 1959 with our young family. Our two sisters are still 'in', Ruth and Olive, Farnborough and Coventry. News of either or their families would be appreciated.

Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: April 17, 2002
I am searching for newspaper reports of the custody dispute between my parents [peeb vs expeeb] in the early sixties. I remember our pictures in the press, and I think it was the National Sunday Papers. I have searched the local archives without success [all that microfilm makes your eyes go funny]. Any information [accurate dates etc] would be very welcome, and also any material on Gresham Cooke's "Family Preservation Bill" that was put before Parliament at that time.

best wishes

p.s. thanks Dick for an excellent website

Guest: Bob Brown
Guest E-mail: bob and Erin @aol.com
City, Country: Dallas TX USA
Date & Comments: April 19, 2002
My life is not a secret, it is an open book to those it may help.

Guest: Gabriel Pino
Guest E-mail: gabrielpino@tutopia.com
City, Country: Rosario, Argentina
Date & Comments: April 22, 2002
Dear Folks:

I got some messages from some of you out there, but I think you got a wrong idea of what I meant to state. Maybe it was my fault and maybe I didn't express my thought correctly , so I ask you for appologies if my english wasn't clear enough. Here I go again:

It's not me the one who needs courage to join the EBs, NOT AT ALL !!! I said that maybe it's my son's mother who is needing some encouraging and supporting words to leave all that stuff and join me again in "my world". The world we fell in love in. Please get that straight. I've been thinking of writting a letter to her and give her another chance of forgetting the whole nightmare and begin a new life with our son, so I thought that some advises from you that have a vivid experience of how to fight for your freedom may be useful for her to consider the possibility.

I hope I expressed myself correctly this time. ...and don't get me wrong...I realized long ago that my destiny is not with "that wrong people".

God bless you once again and thanks for your concern.

Gabriel

Guest: Eileen Overton
Guest E-mail: eileen33@southcom.com.au
City, Country: 33 Formby Road, Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Date & Comments: April 23, 2002
Amazed at information collected, I had a great upbringing amongst the brethren which stood me in good stead, but left in 1962- traumatic as it was, (on account of the drink issue.) the Lord Jesus led me into a still greater walk with Him and I so appreciated His love in allowing this to happen, and I love the brethren - all His people "who call on the name of the Lord out of a pure heart." throughout the world, sad to say some play-up! but prayer and love go a long way.

Yours in our lovely Lord Jesus,

Eileen

Guest: Martyn Griffiths
Guest E-mail: martyngriff@cwcom.net
City, Country: Southport Merseyside
Date & Comments: April 25, 2002
Many thanks for a most interesting website, does anyone reading this know of any relaxiation of the rules around contacting relatives out of the Exclusives. A a relation of mine now out of the system has received a letter from their Mother after 35 years of non contact. Is there hope yet ?

Guest: Vanessa Cummings
City, Country: Org of Hastings NZ
Date & Comments: April 26, 2002
Hi there everybody

Just wondering if anyone has heard of how the two kiwis nearly free are?? Have they left yet?? Do they need help?? I am thinking of you two Love Vanessa

Guest: Lynn Lipke Phillips
City, Country: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Date & Comments: April 26, 2002
Thank you for your wonderful site! What a blessing for those who have escaped, and are still healing. You hold up a mirror to show where they have come from.

Guest: Vanessa Cummings
City, Country: NZ
Date & Comments: April 26, 2002
To Gabriel Pino

Go unexpected and sow seeds.(give her something to think about). If you love her tell her you still love her.... Give her an oportunity . Tell her to ran away with you. But you will have to spend time with her. Take time of work when this happens and be her support. Read the separation from evil and take that to her and if she reads what is in the bible you will realize the ebs have taken all this to far. Tell her if she leaves ,she will not go to hell. Christianity is family to gether. Not torn apart.

I wish you all the best

Vanessa

Guest: Colin & Margaret Meek
Guest E-mail: mameek@ccn.go-free.co.uk
City, Country: Aylesbury. England
Date & Comments: April 28, 2002
We use to be in Ealing...west of London and left in 1984. We have three children and 9 grandchildren.

Guest: Curious
City, Country: Midlands, England
Date & Comments: April 28, 2002
Well what has happened in Birmingham UK? Something has for sure. They (The Exclusives)are rushing around at all sorts of strange hours trying to get to see people kicked out over 20 years ago. In their own inimitable arrogance they turn up at all sorts of inconvenient times, as if me have been waiting for them for 25 years. I don't think so mate, some of us have got a life.

If anyone can shed some light on any drastic change that could have caused it, then please feel free to let us in on the secret.

Many thanks

Guest: Fran Gallotti
Guest E-mail: fgallotti@compusmart.ab.ca
City, Country: Edmonton, Alberta
Date & Comments: April 29, 2002
Just a reminder that an exeb reunion is planned for June 28 and 29th in Edmonton, Alberta.

On Friday evening there will be a pasta buffet and on Saturday a mid afternoon barbecue. Please let me know if you are interested in attending.. Thanks Fran
email address above. Telephone - 780-450-3829

Guest: Eileen Overton (nee Macdonald of Glasgow Scotland)
Guest E-mail: eileen33 @southcom.com.au
Date & Comments: April 29, 2002

Guest: Alan Carvell
Guest E-mail: alancarvell@aol1.com
City, Country: Dudley UK
Date & Comments: April 29, 2002
With reference to 'Curious Midlands' 28th April 2002, I was kicked out in Birmingham over 20 years ago, and I've not been contacted by the PB's...Yet! But for those who know me, you can understand them not wanting to contact me!!!!! Do you really think they would want me back? For those of You who still believe in the Lord, please pray that Birmingham City F.C. will get to the Play off finals in Cardiff. Many Thanks

Guest: Oliver Bedford
Guest E-mail: oliverwbedford@bigpond.com
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: April 29, 2002
Sorry, Alan, I'm going for the Canaries.

Cheers

Oliver

Guest: Jim
Guest E-mail: electvessel@hotmail.com
City, Country: Sydney
Date & Comments: May 1, 2002
I find this site sad, but very interesting and informative.

Guest: Mark Hewines
Guest E-mail: mthewines@hotmail.com
City, Country: Detroit, MI
Date & Comments: May 1, 2002
If I may shed some light on why so many peebs are being contacted after so many years. In the last year, but really the last few months many of the area and continent "leaders" have been "dealt with". So now there is a big push to contact as many as possible that were confined and withdrawn from by these persons to make sure that they were not "wrongfully" put out or "withdrawn from". They hope that they will find some who are just waiting to come back as that will make the new leaders look good.

By the way it seems as though Bruce Hales is the undisputed new "elect vessel" as there is no one left to run against him or that wants to!

I thank God constantly that my eyes were opened to the anti-biblical princepals that were being followed there, and was able to leave with my immediate family intact.

Much Love in Christ;

Mark Hewines

Guest: Rita Napier (nee SMUTS)
Guest E-mail: craignap@iafrica.com
City, Country: South Africa
Date & Comments: May 2, 2002
This is a message for Steve Otto. He is an uncle of mine and today for the first time I saw his "Father's experience" on the website. Steve, please contact me. I met Peter last year and have lost his contact details.

Guest: Mike Woolnough
Guest E-mail: mikewool@supanet.com
City, Country: Tiptree Essex
Date & Comments: May 3, 2002
Originally from Aldeburgh Suffolk.

Guest: Geoffrey Gardiner
Guest E-mail: geoff@intercity-epp.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 3, 2002
This site is most distressing.

Guest: Caitlin Stevens
City, Country: NZ
Date & Comments: May 3, 2002
I have heard that Lawrence & Alma Faulkner were killed in a car crash in Blenheim can anyone confirm this?

Guest: Rintin
City, Country: up north NZ
Date & Comments: May 4, 2002
Hi Mr Wyman. Thanks for the oppertunity to make an entry in this wonderful guestbook. I wish to remain annonymous still as we are not yet free. I wish to reply to Caitlin Stevens entry on page 23 in the guestbook re Mr and Mrs Lawrence Faulkner being killed in a car crash. Yes sadly to say it is true. It was remarkable how they were both taken together at the end and was a big shock to everyone around the country. Please could you pass this on to Caitlin Stevens as I do not have an email address to contact directly. Many thanks.

Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: DrPJFrench@CarlyleEducation.com.au
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: May 5, 2002
Yesterday my partner and I visited an Antique Fair in Geelong. An EB sister was there alone and my life partner Jenny decided to speak with her, and in summary the conversation went like this:

J - Why are you here?
EB - My mother has just died and I am checking prices as i will be selling her estate.

J - Hasn't your leader said that you should not go out alone but in pairs, and not be seen here and not shop on a Saturday?
EB - We dont have any leader?

J - Aren't you forbidden from speaking to non members?
EB - No we are free to speak to whoever we wish to, except when that person was one of us and is wanting to criticise or argue about something that the Brethren have done.

J - So you can do anything you want to?
EB - No we meet together and discuss everything and then we as a large family all do the same thing.

J - I have a friend who used to be one of you and I am told that you are anxiously going around trying to get people to go back to you?
EB - Anyone can join us if they love the Lord Jesus.

J - I love the Lord Jesus so can I come along to one of your prayer meetings?
EB - No - they are private but some one will come and see you in your home and then you can come along.

J - You said that you don't have a leader - I though you had one called Bruce Hales and he just died ...
EB [smirking] - Oh now - you are SO wrong - Bruce Hales is alive and very well ...

J - Sorry - that is right ... didn't his father just die and now he has taken over the Church as world leader...
EB - I am sorry - I have to go ... [disappears - up into heaven? ... no not likely...]

A very interesting conversation if you closely read it - I would be interested in receiving notes of any other coversations between any of us and EBs ... there is a potential resource there for detailed comparisons and analysis.

Peter French

Guest: Neville McCallum
Guest E-mail: n.p.mccallum@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Blenheim. New Zealand
Date & Comments: May 5, 2002
To Caitland Stevens, the Faulkner couple killed in a motor accident in Blenheim, her christian name was Doreen. Regards, Neville.

Guest: Ian Sneller
Guest E-mail: ian.sneller@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Leatherhead, UK
Date & Comments: May 5, 2002
Many of you may remember my mother, Lucie Sneller. She went to be with her Lord on Friday 3rd May after having been diagnosed with cancer about 18 months ago. She was 72.

My Dad (68) has lost a great wife, and my sisters, Carol, Jane, Gillian and Elaine, have lost a dear mother.

I thought I would put this notice on the site as she would have been known to many, both in and out of the EB's.

As a family , we were brought up initially in Weybridge and then Hampton. We left the EB's in the early 1970's, but much of my mothers side (WELLS) remained 'in', most of whom I have sadly never seen.

My parents were, I know, seen by many, as something of a relief and an oasis to the oppression of the 'system'. A recent testament to this fact is the following e mailed to me today from Austalia!

The Sneller parties were the ONLY occasions when we were able to throw off our sober mantle and have real indoor FUN - just like ordinary kids would be having. But for those parties I would have had very little interaction with other kids at all.

Mum's funeral will be in Leatherhead next week, so if anyone wants further details, please contact me.

We rejoice in the fact that she knew her Saviour and has gone to be with Him. Anyone who doubts their own destiny, should ask the question Do I know where I am going? If not, you should not rest until that question is answered!

Ian Sneller

Guest: Terry Nason
Guest E-mail: tpnason@bigpond.com
City, Country: Wollongong
Date & Comments: May 5, 2002
My brother & I were told to leave the family home about 20 years ago & I for one have never looked back. I think that 80 percent of the people connected to this site are only looking for someone to blame for their own inadequacies.

PS

I am reasonably happily married, have two heathly kids, one with down syndrome, have two dogs, one cat, two guineapigs, two fish and a heathly mortgage just like any "normal" person.

Guest: Michael Hutchins
Guest E-mail: sammysworld@tiscali.co.uk
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 5, 2002
I left in 1997, have a new life, a lovely wife and a baby boy. I'm standing on my own two feet and doing well. I left when I was 21 had nowhere to live and no job but it's amazing what you can do when you have to! . My family still live in Crewe.

Guest: Cecilie Palmer
Guest E-mail: wncs@watchdog.net.nz
City, Country: NZ
Date & Comments: May 3, 2002
To Jim, electvessel@hotmail.com

I find this site interesting and informative, but not in the least sad. It is a site of hope, of freedom, of reality and renewed communication between friends and families who have been lost through the dogmatic practices of a very sad and sorry sect which is blinded as to the truth. I am not ashamed to be open and honest about who I am and how I can be contacted.

Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: May 6, 2002
"Religeon vs Relationships

The world is full of Religeon, it may result in anything from a complacent feeling of "belonging" to providing a venue for enormous abuse of power. History documents the sad and horrific results of wars fought over religeon-which continues even today. The PB experiance is merely a micro organism of religeon, and what happens when the essence of a realionship with our Lord Jesus Christ is lost, or absent.

I don't blame anyone leaving the PB's deciding they have had their belly full of religeon-for they obviously never had a relationship with out Lord, and quite possably for the simple reason, religeon has no place for Christ- it never did. Look up www.hubblesite.org/gallery/ and see if you don't come to the simple conclusion that the ancients did "the heavens declare the glory of God" or come to any other conclusion other than the universe is not only bigger than we understand, but bigger than we are even capable of understanding.

Now-picture yourself in Gallalee, 2000 years ago, walking and talking with the man who made it all. Witness his interaction with the poor, the sick and the bereaved. See how the common people were drawn to Him. Listen to him say "come unto me, all ye who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light" That is a Relationship. Go and do thou likewise.

Guest: John Wright
Guest E-mail: johnwright@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Sutton Coldfield, Birmingham
Date & Comments: May 6, 2002
In response to Alan Carvell's flippant and juvenile posting last week, all I can say is that it is is the response that I expected. All that little crowd in Birmingham who left long ago spend their weekends and leisure time on worldly pleasures such as football & motor sport. One such person even officiates at motor sport events on the Lords Day. What is the WORLD coming to.

Guest: Neil Dadd
Guest E-mail: CDadd@aol.com
Date & Comments: May 6, 2002
Sue Smith has gone to be with the Lord

Guest: Peter French
Guest E-mail: PJFrench@celestial.com.au
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
To Alan Carvell and others ...

I don't know John Wright, but i want to make it clear that I abhor the attitude expressed in his letter, as it is what I left behind in the cult.

I can't apologise for what he has said, and for his very unchristian attitude towards '...that little crowd in Birmingham...', but I am glad that you are free and the '..little crowd...' also, and PLEASE don't take his comments as indicative of what a lot of us think.

And to those others who have left for freedom - DON'T be turned away or made feel guilty by a Peeb legalistic attitude.

Do not be held again in bondage ... we didn't leave for this sort of insult.

Peter French

Guest: Vanessa Cummings
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
To John Wright's comment on someones enjoyment for the day on Sunday. You are a bit judgemental. The Lord Jesus didn't judge. Good on the person for watching rugby if that is what it is or whatever.

Guest: Ray Taylor
Guest E-mail: rayjaytay@yahoo.com
City, Country: Ayer MA USA
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
Re: May 5th entry of Peter French

Dear Dr. French:

Your documentation of conversation between your LP and EB sister is interesting in that the sister did quite well for being on her own with no support. She seems to be sure of herself and projects their doctrine personally. Your summary suggests that her responses are spontaneous and not rote. She knows what she is saying.

I admire her for entertaining Jenny’s leading questions and statements, one of which we know to be hypocritical and impertinent. Why would Jenny want to go to a prayer meeting with the EB’s, knowing what she has learned of them from you? They are not a curiosity shop that encourages browsers. The Amish here in the northeastern US do that. They encourage tourism and exploit their own eccentricity. I can’t say that I care for preying on people the way you did, nor for demeaning her departure.

As to comparing experiences of interaction, I concur. But to what purpose do you have in mind?

Respectfully,

Ray Taylor

Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
Interesting comment from Michael Wilson [5 May]. If you really want to join that bunch of nutters you'd better stop using your computer forthwith, and repent in dust and ashes for ever having touched it.

Guest: BB
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
To our friend 'John Wright'

Are you serious??? You are a bit of a rogue I suspect. Perhaps you prefer to do more sedate things like riding a moped instead of attending sports events.

Guest: Janine Wiltshire
Guest E-mail: janine.wiltshire@talk21.com
City, Country: Essex, UK
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
Just been catching up with the Guestbook - I must admit I was rather amused at John Wright's comments, sounds like you have not moved on since you left the brethren. Maybe it would be a good idea if you went back in there and did not judge people that are actually enjoying themselves in the REAL WORLD!.

For those of you that know me - keep in touch!!! I enjoy looking up the guest book on a frequent basis. I am thinking of organising an ex-peeb reunion in the near future - for ex Kingston brethren and thereabouts!...

By the way, does anyone know Johnny Slegg's number (he was from Sutton), and left about 15+ years ago. I have a friend who is trying to get in touch with him. Thanks!!

Regards to you all!
Janine

Guest: Gerard Rayment
Guest E-mail: gerardandmonica@blueyonder.co.uk
City, Country: Southend England
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
Love that spoof email from "John Wright" May 6th. When I left the peebs John Wright was 'the lead' in Birmingham. I'd just love an email address of ...@exclusivebrethren.co.uk

Guest: Alan Carvell
Guest E-mail: alancarvell1@aol.com
City, Country: Dudley, England
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
With reference to John Wright's comments May 6th 2002. Please do not be too hard on him, I’ve been led to believe he has recently been withdrawn from and it is understood he has recently had a nervous breakdown. I've not taken any offence to his remarks, and will still be attending the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff on Sunday for the play off finals Between Birmingham City F.C. and Norwich F.C. again I ask for your prayers to get Birmingham through, as you did in the semi finals. Many thanks to you all. Alan Carvell

Guest: Dick Wyman
Guest E-mail: dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: Minnesota, USA
Date & Comments: May 7, 2002
It appears that the John Wright comments of May 6 were spoofed by someone with access to the non-existent web site exclusivebrethren.co.uk.

Remember that people you meet on the Internet may not be who they present themselves to be.

Guest: Graham John
Guest E-mail: painterinoils@aol.com
City, Country: Uk, Devon
Date & Comments: May 8, 2002
Re John Wrigteous,

Isn't every day Lords Day If you are a christian?
Does it not say Deear Bruther...Live each day as unto the Lord. My God he must have a fantastic sense of humour allowing people like you and I to breathe

Graham

Guest: Anon
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: May 8, 2002
My aged parent and sibling are still in. I phone them from time to time and they do speak to me. (I keep the subject matter neutral). However, fairly recently they each made the comment that "how you were treated when you left would not happen today". I have not been rushed off my feet by "priests" with apologies. I recall in the '60s working for an EB business, there was a motto on our office wall, "Never say please, never say thank you, never apologise" (true!!). I wonder if this still applies.

Guest: Victoria Napthine
Guest E-mail: Vickynapthine@aol.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 9, 2002

Guest: (NICKNAME) WINGNUT
City, Country: ORANGE NSW AUSTRALIA
Date & Comments: May 9, 2002
IF YOUR A PEEB AND ARE THINKING OF MOVING FROM METROPOLITAN AREAS TO HERE THINK AGAIN (AND GET A LIFE)

Guest: Liz Franzen
City, Country: San Antonio, USA
Date & Comments: May 10, 2002
Another rule must have bit the dust! I was in Sam's Club an hour ago and ran square into some peebs! I busted up laughing! It was the daughter-in-law of the head honcho here, Don Carnwath. They were smirking at me (she had her nieces with her) and I was laughing too, so I guess you caould call it an amicable adventure??

Guest: Laurie Twinam
Guest E-mail: Laurie@twinam.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: Sevenoaks, Kent
Date & Comments: May 10, 2002
Dear Jimmy-friends, we are aware that some of you read these pages. When with God's help you decide against all the odds to follow Jesus instead of self-appointed and vastly inferior current leaders, you will be on the right track. And the Lord of Glory will graciously guide you, making His presence felt. Read John 9 for a blow-by-blow example.

You will be laughed at by some - maybe even by certain contributors to this website. But remember that our victorious Saviour was rejected by the world He came to save, and especially by the religious experts. We have the privilege today of taking a few hard knocks as good soldiers of Jesus Christ. Heb 12 2-3 helps.

Guest: Sharon Carlisi(Pearson)
Guest E-mail: rcarlisi@gte.net
City, Country: Chino, CA USA
Date & Comments: May 12, 2002
Hello again. I would like to hear from Liz Franzen. Please e-mail me.

Sharon

Guest: Birmingham 6
City, Country: Sutton Coldfield
Date & Comments: May 12, 2002
Well it appears that Alan Carvell's plea for prayer amongst the flock has paid handsome dividends this Lords Day afternoon. Whilst walking home from this evenings preaching I happened to overhear 2 worldly youths discuss the merits of the match and the final score which was won on a penalty shoot out. We must also remember at this time Sir Jack Hayward, Wolves wealthy and generous benefactor in his teams sad loss of promotion this season. Never before has the scripture been so true as in his case "It is easier for a camel to to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"

Guest: Sir Jack Hayward
City, Country: Wolverhampton, UK
Date & Comments: May 12, 2002

To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

Guest: Dick Millott
Guest E-mail: dmillott@bigpond.com
City, Country: Melbourne/Maldon Australia
Date & Comments: May 13, 2002
Some readers may remember my Mother Betty (Elizabeth), who sadly passed away at nearly 92 in January this year. Dad died in 1990 at 81. Sadly we were not informed in time for us to be present at her bedside or indeed the graveside which they really don't want you to do. "We would prefer that you did not attend" was the response I recieved -but having made it to Dad's graveside service with minutes to spare, I found that I was glad that I did. It gave some sense of comfort and closure even though, like many of my generation, I never had an adult relationship with my parents. The fact that the Peebs form a human cordon with their backs to you, and look at you like you are an alien makes little difference when you are grieving. It merely shows how small minded, insular and plain rude they are- which proves that manners and Christian grace are no longer taught or practiced. Some readers from Geelong, Melbourne and from abroad who knew her, may however be interested to hear of the passing of a wonderful little lady who was loved by all those who knew her.

Guest: Kimberly Willetts
Guest E-mail: kimberlyw@tippet-richardson.com
City, Country: Courtice, Ontario
Date & Comments: May 13, 2002
Hello people, You might recognize my name, I'm Russell and Janice Willetts's daughter, from Toronto. I left the Brethren 2 years ago, for a man who I hope the marry next year.
Anybody who is interested in contacting me, I'd be glad to hear from you.

Kimberly

Guest: James Bell
Guest E-mail: james-enid@btopenworld.com
City, Country: Sheffield. South Yorks. England.
Date & Comments: May 15, 2002
Please note change of email address formerly james-enid@lineone.net Now james-enid@btopenworld.

Guest: Francis Mortyn
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: San Diego
Date & Comments: May 15, 2002
A number of graduates of the EB stalags who post here seem to carry on with the characteristic EB fear of forthright language. When one is free of fear of death one no longer says "gone to be with the Lord," one says "died." Death is natural.

Guest: Anon
City, Country: Anonville, Anonshire
Date & Comments: May 17, 2002
Hey Br. Francis,

Did the old incense thingy hit you on the up-swing? Because I was wondering whether you are suggesting that Jesus was ex-EB too? For example, Jesus said: "for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth" Matthew 9:24 / Mark 5:39 / Luke 8:52

I leave you hopefully ducking the incense with Paul's words: "having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better".

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Guest: 2 kiwis nearly free
Guest E-mail: seebee@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: up north NZ
Date & Comments: May 19, 2002
To Liz Franzen, re comment on 10th May. Would love to contact you liz as we met in Dec 1980 at three days in San Fran and kept up contact for several years later. Please supply email address to above email address of mine and i will contact you and catch up on the lost years. Thanks Liz.

Guest: anon
City, Country: Herts, England
Date & Comments: May 19, 2002
I think that the way the Peebs try to control one another is wrong. No holidays, no eating with others, no using fax machines etc. unless you know a way round it (asking a non peeb who works for you to use it for you). Throwing their children out at a young age then trying to "lure" them back in later on. Telling their children that they will never be happy and the marriage will never last, after they have just got married because the other person is not a peeb or ex peeb. Telling their children that "going out" with someone is wrong but then when they get engaged to marry trying to interfere and break up the engagement. If your children are so terrible that you have to throw them out then leave them alone, don't interfere and why do you want them back if they are such terrible people you had to throw them out in the first place ??

Guest: Rick Clow
Guest E-mail: clowrick@hotmail.com
City, Country: Grand Forks, North Dakota USA
Date & Comments: May 19, 2002
Hi! I first heard of this website while attending a funeral in Pembina, North Dakota {15 miles east of Neche} two days ago. What a great concept! A site where we can keep in touch and express our feelings! My name is Rick Clow. I was born into the brethern in 1957. My parents were Bill {Willie} and Gladys. I left the brethern in 1974. My reasons for leaving were of my own selfishness. I wanted to play sports and participate in other extra-curricular activities that the other children my age, not in the brethern, were allowed to do. I have many, many, reasons why I came to realize as I grew older and matured and looked back at what actually went on, and still goes on, within the brethern that my choice was the right one, even though I was only thinking of myself when I left. I realize it was of my choice to leave, but if I cannot sit down with my mother for 5 minutes to tell her how much I really loved her and my father, then as the Brethern always said when they did not have an answer. "It's just not right!" Thank you for listening and have a good day!

Guest: Kevin Bradshaw
Guest E-mail: kevbrad@start.com.au
City, Country: Auckland NZ
Date & Comments: May 21, 2002
Have a great life.

Guest: Mead
City, Country: Australia
Date & Comments: May 21, 2002
What a laugh/how sad. Today at a major city hospital I saw an EB husband & wife. They were watching TV in the waiting room!!! and reading magazines!!! (ooooh) They looked at me, perhaps wondering if they should know me (after 30 years out). When I was leaving, the wife was alone and I went up to her and told her who I was and that I remembered who she was. She must surely have bruised her mouth the way she clamped her lips so tightly together, trying not to speak to me. I left her saying "If we can't live together on this earth as Christians, how can we spend eternity together in heaven? May God bless you". I don't know where I got the courage to face her, well yes I do. God gives His people strength if we but trust in His ways.

Guest: Priscilla Wood
Guest E-mail: leonderekwood@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Motueka, NZ
Date & Comments: May 21, 2002
Vanessa Cummings/Jensen I have a sister in law wanting to contact you. I think you will remember her well- Marlene Petrie of Nelson. She has been away from the church for 6 yrs and would like to renew contact with you. I will wait to hear a reply from you and will then forward contact numbers to you. Once I have your email addres I will write a more detailed letter to you. Cheers Priscilla

Guest: Colin Millott
City, Country: Mudgee Australia
Date & Comments: May 23, 2002
Left in 1974 from Geelong Victoria. Would be glad to hear from anyone who new me from those enlightning days ...NOT.

Guest: Elaine Hanley
Guest E-mail: benhan@localnet.com
City, Country: Bucks Co PA
Date & Comments: May 23, 2002
To Peter French: Understand completely as I'm still trying to fit in with normal people after 30 years. Appreciate ANON 4/4/02 concern over possible brethren-bashing. Aside from evil EB group, the difficulty with "closed" or exclusive table is they seem to ignore Ephesians 4:1-6. Esp. vs 3-6 being diligent to keep, preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, etc. Somehow an exclusive table doesn't recognize one body teaching. Remember how JT Sr. denied the truth of the Eternal Sonship of Christ. Suppose JT had reread Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22, he may have changed his mind. Gen. 1:26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Gen. 3:22 Then the Lord God said, The man has become like one of Us, etc. Suppose JT Sr had not taught that error. Perhaps history of the Taylor group would be very different. Members of the Taylor group were not like the Bereans, searching the Scriptures daily to see if these things were true. 150 years ago when Plymouth Brethren group started, soon there was division after division. Plymouth Brethren history is not a pretty picture.

Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: May 24, 2002
The seeds of the present day disaster and missrepresentation of the gospel by the PB's were sown at least 80 years ago, when they departed from the teachings of one of their leaders, who was adament in insisting there could be no special "fellowship within a fellowship" [common to many so called "exclusive" groups] Once that was set up, the stage was well set to introduce the erronous doctrine [and a prime feature of a cult] that "we" had a "special message" from God that no one else had. Then the concept of "authoritative ministry" was introduced- almost putting it on the same basis as scripture. Once these concepts were introduced and generally accepted, the door was wide open to whatever whim any future leader chose to introduce, and we see the sad results today as the teachings bear little or no resemblence to the actions of our Lord when here on earth.

We break bread to honour the Lord, and to renew our personal commitment to Him- showing forth His death until He come, as directed by scripture- not to signify "membership" in some group. To withold the privelege of breaking bread merely because a believer isn't "with us" is an affront to the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ on Calvary's cross. Indeed, the scriptural injuction to Peter is very plain "Do not thou make common what I have cleansed"

Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: JWeigh6523@aol.com
Date & Comments: May 25, 2002
The seeds of today's troubles can be found almost 200 years ago when the whole idea of "recovered truth" was invented, making brethren exclusive right form the beginning. This was later compounded, at the time of the "Bethesda matter," by the imperialist tendencies of the then leadership who tried to usurp the authority and responsibility of the local church and run the show centrally on the whims of the first of the universal leaders.

Guest: Confused
City, Country: Herts, UK.
Date & Comments: May 25, 2002
Do the Peeb women ever do anything other than go shopping ? Recently every shopping mall I have been in has been crawling with hankie heads. And there was me thinking that they weren't supposed to mix with us unsaved or ungodly ?? I wonder if they purchased any mobile phones or computers or make up ??

Guest: Philip Walker
Guest E-mail: pphilipwalker@aol.com
City, Country: France (formerly Edinburgh)
Date & Comments: May 26, 2002
Dear readers,

I would like to offer my reflection on the two points raised over the last couple of months, by various persons D Archer, P French and E Hanley etc Namely SOCIAL ALIENATION and WHEN ERROR CREPT IN.

Social Alienation

It is true that very little value was put on social relations and friendships with normal people. Since leaving as a 14 yr old, I have had to learn social skills from scratch, sometimes being bruised in the process. My teenage years after leaving the brethren were terrifyingly lonely including at that time fear of the opposite sex at that time, so Edinburgh pubs were a way out(not a bad way out). Thankfully towards the end of my teens I found other outlets. My travels (see guest book article April 2001), living in communities and other cultures(African Bosnia), professional work with inter-dominational Christian humanitarian agencies contributed enormously. It is important to be adventurous, strike out and risk being hurt, lonely etc. By allowing the real self to develop rather than the suppressed subculture of the brethren to dominate. I believe that the fear of social alienation and the social element has kept more people in brethren meetings than indeed the attraction of the theological or doctrinal positions held. It does take courage to step outside. I am not saying that there are not some good broad based brethren churches that bear fruit. There are indeed.

When error crept in?

Recent guest book entries have mentioned that brethren went wrong 80 yrs ago and 200 years ago. I believe the first error was when Darby walked out of the Church of Ireland around 1825. His theological stance or tendency towards ‘doctrinal purity’ is the first error. Take Darby’s dispensational scheme or the eternal son-ship thing. How can the human mind have the Almighty God so nicely wrapped up as Darby did? The very notion puts Darby in the same category as a prophet or high priest or on the same plat form as God! That is heresy. Hence a spiral of divisions that took place in his life-time to this day. His later proposition such as ‘the church in ruins’ and mans ‘gross moral contamination’ led to an extreme ‘separation from evil stance’ which still permeates through most shades of brethren, even today and of course was used by Taylor. Hence the mentality today in most brethren circle that they are better than other Christian denominations today, and the whole extreme separation from the world thing. Around the same era Anglican/Episcopal missionaries were quietly seeding the ‘good news’ which resulted for example in the East African Revival. Church in ruins?

I believe in Ecumenical faith, where Christians unite on the essentials of Christianity and do not force secondary issues. It is this which has strengthened a range of churches today, and their fruits can be seen.

As a student I studied Marxism, and I dabbled with political groups with various shades of opinion between Marxists and neo- Marxists. There are three points I can make.

• Marxism has great economic and social theory, but is unworkable because totalitarianism set in as it was being applied. And various leaders emerged that opposed each other emerged.
• Today it tends towards the extreme left ideology, and there are hundreds of socialist splinter groups who claim doctrinal purity.(Hence Marxism in ruins!) It is not one of the broad parties where tolerance of opinion is practised (labour /conservative/social democrats). Having said that labour/SD still practise and apply some social-economic theory derived from Marxist thought.
• Marxist can never agree amongst themselves

In the above try putting ‘brethrenism’ in the place of ‘Marxism’. See the likeness.

Thank you for listening. Warm greetings to all.

Philip Walker, France

Guest: Mick Hutchins
Guest E-mail: sammysworld@tiscali.co.uk
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: May 26, 2002
Message for Joe Croft

Have info on your sister Debbie.

Guest: Jerry Spearn
Guest E-mail: VWDragracer@hotmail.com
City, Country: Phoenix Arizona
Date & Comments: May 27, 2002
I was a member of the brethren located in Omaha Nebraska until 1980 when I was withdrawn from.

Guest: Bob (Robert) Cottle
Guest E-mail: bob.cottle@railtech.co.nz
City, Country: Whangarei, New Zealand
Date & Comments: May 27, 2002
I left the BP's in the mid 1970's in Hawera and now live near Whangarei.

I have found the true joy and freedom of following Jesus that I never had while with the BP's. I currently worship happily at the CRF church in Whangarei. Married to Julie (non PB from Motueka) and have three teenage children. My wife and children have all now given their hearts to the Lord.

Guest: Stan Thompson
Guest E-mail: savedbygrace@sherbtel.net
City, Country: Princeton, MN USA
Date & Comments: May 28, 2002
In the last 6 years, I and my family have separated from 2 EB "Grant" fellowships for moral reasons. We long for Christian fellowship with others of like mind in Minnesota.

Stan Thompson

Guest: Community Worker
Guest E-mail: ar-dj8095@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: May 29, 2002
I am worried about a client who may have her children taken from her by authorities due to abuse in the family. We believe that she may be a Bretheren although says her faith is called The Truth and meets in private houses. The characteristics of the faith are very similar to the Bretheren. There are others practicing this Faith in the distict in Otago New Zealand. She has come from another country and has only the abuser's family for "support". There appears to be a lot of covering up. Has anyone any information on what we might be dealing with? This could turn into a serious case and we wish to assist this person.

Guest: ANON
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: May 31, 2002
A very good friend of mine has sent me his new telephone number. Please contact me as I am unable to phone.The number you have given to me is un-obtainable.Hope everything is going well for you.Me and mine look forward to seeing you and your's as soon as pos!.

Guest: Dave Johnson
Guest E-mail: davidpjohnson@yahoo.com
City, Country: Dallas, TX
Date & Comments: June 1, 2002
I've been reading this website for a while now. Have seen several postings regarding the PBs and the Gospel. As a boy growing up in the Plymouth Brethren side, our "Gospel Meeting" was preached by a leading "brother", many times my father or grandfather, Paul L. Johnson. Anyhow, I grew up believing that the Gospel Meeting was a sermon about salvation to those in the room not yet saved. Now that I'm no longer in the PBs and "all grown up", I realize that the Gospel sermon preached was sermon on salvation to a room full of "saved" individuals...how silly!. As an Episcopalian, we have the Gospel every Sunday at Eucharist....and guess what? there's not just "The Gospel", but wow, four of them...Matthew, Mark, Luke & John! And we don't preach salvation via the Gospel to our members. So, question: what do the PB/EBs think the Gospel really is? and why have I heard former members say that "the Brethren really don't preach the Gospel"? Thanks.

Guest: Darren Clifford
Guest E-mail: dwc@paradise.net.nz
City, Country: Blenheim New Zealand
Date & Comments: June 4, 2002
Hi what a great site

Guest: Judy Crutch, formally Lee, nee Renton, of the Barnes, Carmen, Hewett family tree
Guest E-mail: withheld
City, Country: Formally Adelaide, now Sunshine Coast, Qld.
Date & Comments: June 4, 2002
I would dearly like to finish the family tree, and get to know all the cousins I have missed out on all these years. I know all the Uncles and Aunties must be dead now, but there are so many people, missing in my life, I feel like someone who is standing on the edge of a cliff, where once there were green pastures, not vacant space, and I have missed them. I feel exposed on one side; incomplete.

Guest: David & Esther Marsh (nee Ham)
Guest E-mail: dmmarsh@bushinternet.com
City, Country: Farnborough England
Date & Comments: June 4, 2002

Guest: Peter Gildersleve
Guest E-mail: Psamsmaster@aol.com
City, Country: Cardiff Wales
Date & Comments: June 4, 2002
I left the E.B.'s many many years ago and have just been told about this web page. I have found it very interesting going through the pages, Peter Legge we may have met in 1955 the name seems to ring a bell.

Guest: Jerry Spearn
Guest E-mail: VWDragracer@hotmail.com
City, Country: Phoenix Az (formerly of Omaha Ne)
Date & Comments: June 4, 2002
I have had the great pleasure of recieving an e-mail after posting on this board from some one that has had contact with an Aunt that I haven't seen in 22 years. It's message boards like this that can make it a very very small world we live in. I would love to hear from any one that was in the Omaha/Gothenberg/DesMoines area.

Guest: Chris and Lynley Bell (2 Kiwis nearly free)
Guest E-mail: seebee@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Auckland, New Zealand
Date & Comments: June 5, 2002
Hi everyone. I just had to let you all know that us 2 kiwis who were nearly free, are actually really free. Thanks to my friend??? at work that is. She has done me a real favour by getting scared and dobbing me in. It feels great believe you me. My last hurdle is my job but that will soon be past history. Cheers. We feel so happy. Thanks to every one who has encouraged us by phone or email. Keep in touch. Chris.

Guest: Anon
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: June 6, 2002
This site is so very sad.

The Lord Jesus is a living Man. He died for my sins and now lives for me, and His Spirit helps me to live for Him, He is not dead He feels things. He feels the fact that so many remarks are made on this site without any apparent fear of God.

My Saviour has not changed, He is the same yesterday and today and for the ages to come. The Blessed God has not changed He is unchangeable. But it is us that have changed, and our blessing is in getting near, and keeping near to Him. Most of us had a part in a system in which there was no room for Him, but, should we continue to leave Him out of our thoughts and lives?

Christianity is not theory, neither is it doing my own will, but the Saviour wins my heart. In attatchment to our Lord Jesus, and being led by the Holy Spirit,we can be here as sons of the living God, and seek to walk here pleasing to the Blessed Man who died for me, and suffered for me, and shed His blood for me. Can you say the same? Saved By Grace, and owned by Christ.

Guest: Tim Smart
Guest E-mail: smart@eurobell.co.uk
City, Country: Plymouth, England
Date & Comments: June 7, 2002
7/6/02

Congratulations to the two Kiwis. It is always good to hear that someone has escaped from that dreadful regime. On a sad note, Hermione Smart, nee Gardiner, (my sister-in-law), died last week, and was buried in a small village cemetery near Cambridge.

Guest: Francis Mortyn
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.comS
City, Country: California
Date & Comments: June 8, 2002
There's good news and bad news. On the up side, it is encoraging and warming to observe so many lovers of our Lord Jesus Christ moved to greater devotion to Him as they break free from the deadening grip of Peebism. Sadly, though, I don't see much appreciation expressed for the beauty of She whom Christ loves--the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, comprising *every* person baptised with water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. She is dear to Him, to whom she is espoused, and remains yet here on Earth as the Body of her ascended Head. May I add a positive word of appreciation for the Peebs? They inculcated deep appreciation for Her, whom they called "the Assembly," and I submit that we who gained benfit from this might well be thankful for that. .. .. .

Guest: Mark Watson
Guest E-mail: radar@radarsbluesandgraphics.com
City, Country: Wollongong NSW Australia
Date & Comments: June 9, 2002
Please note email address change:

I note as I look through the guestbook the different paths ones have taken. I chose one free of religion and chose to treat others as I would wish them to treat me. If people choose to follow the bible or any other god for that matter, it should be their own choosing and desire. But also those who choose otherwise should never be condemmed or looked down upon for their choices. What matters truly in the end is that we are happy day by day. I can honestly say that the choice I made has given me greater happiness that I could ever wish for.

Guest: Vanessa Cummings Janson
Date & Comments: June 10, 2002
To PRISCILLA WOOD

Hi, this is Vanessa Cummings (Janson)

I have seen your email two Saturdays ago and sent an email to your email address. I would love to contact Marlene Petrie. I was a bit vague as you had shocked me. I haven't heard from you since, so please tell Marlene I would Love to hear from her.

I thought I'd leave a message here just in case you hadn't got the email I sent you. So could you please let me know. I would love to know what she has got up to, Who she has married and has she got kids.. Must be away. pLots of love Vanessa :) :) :)

Guest: anon
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: June 10, 2002
After 20 years of refusing to speak to me, I like many others have had the 'putting things right visit' by local priests and my father, who during our conversation stated that 'they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for BDH.' (which was supposed to express to me the magnitude and love of the man)

I was flabbergasted that after being put out (as a teenger) for something I hadn't done the EB's had managed to suppress all my dad's natural human emotions, to the extent that personal grief and personal convictions were completely suppressed in line with obeying what they are told to do.

My question to the board is 'Are EB's allowed personal convictions, in anything they do (religious, personal, family)?

Or have they become so conditioned in following orders and new rules, that they will accept anything that is current doctrine. In my case, 'though shalt not speak to him for 20 years', to 'thou shalt now put things right with him and say he can speak to you infrequently'

I have contributed to this board before, but kept this anonymous becuase the dialogue with the EB's is not yet complete.

Guest: Christine Graham (Cooling)
Guest E-mail: chrison2@ozemail.com.au
City, Country: Sunshine Coast Qld Australia
Date & Comments: June 11, 2002
Was in the brethren from birth. Got excluded when I was about 23 years old. I was in Coventry England until I emigrated to Australia in the 70's. I have 2 sisters Mildred and Pauline. Pauline is still with the ex's. My mother died in Chester in 1995. I was able to see her 7 months before she died. She was still with the ex's but I was able to see her at my sister's house in Chester. This was a miracle and a blessing for me. If any of you remember me I would love to hear from you.

Guest: Rev. Ronnie J. Miller, Sr.
Guest E-mail: rjmilrsr@pacbell.net
City, Country: Buena Park, California, USA
Date & Comments: June 11, 2002
Dear Friends,

I had not come in contact with John Darby's works before that I can recall. However, In preparing a Bible study for a camp meeting, I began to search online for resources other than available in my own library. I discovered a website, www.gospelcom.net, that had Brother Darby's commentaries. I found them rich and refreshing in their insight. At one point I had to just back up from the computer and praise God for a while. You can be sure I will return to your website as well to explore the bibliography on John Darby's biography.

In Christ,

Rev. Ron Miller, Pastor, Buena Park Bible Holiness Church

Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, CT USA
Date & Comments: June 11, 2002
Great to hear that the 2 Kiwis are Really free.

Only by grace, Victor

Guest: Paul Gerard (Dr)
Guest E-mail: gerpak@intas.net.com.au
City, Country: Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
Date & Comments: June 12, 2002
I belong to a generation which has been out of the EB cult for thirty years. If any of the readers of this site wish to know some personal history, please open the Opinions/Contributions section of this web-site under the "Exclusive Brethren". It is pretty clear to me that the legacy of Exclusivism has done untold damage to children growing up in it at the present time. One of the worst features is the schooling mandate that EB kids are precluded from normal schooling in State or Denominational schools. Where I live in Tasmania there is, a couple of blocks away, a house that has been converted into a school. The girls do not qualify as "hanky-heads" but who knows what will happen in the future, and their education, if you can so call it, will not fit them to earn a living in a normal society. As to the boys, who knows. I would be grateful if any contributors to this site would respond to me.

Guest: Jane
Guest E-mail: circleofstarrs@hotmail.com
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: June 13, 2002
This is a message for Vanessa C.

Hi Vanessa, I am not an EB or xEB, but am friends with a man who is possibly an open brethren? I need some advice as I have recently had a situation that was unsettling and need some information to prevent something of a similar nature happening and hurting me again.....its nothing too serious or heavy, just need some advice on how to work with the situation being a independant woman who knows little about the Brethren 'culture'. Please contact me via my email if you can help. I will not write more here, as I want to protect my privacy and his.

This is a very informative site and I have learnt a lot from it.

Jane

Guest: Jo Pyne
Guest E-mail: poohsno1fan@hotmail.com
City, Country: Bristol, Engalnd
Date & Comments: June 13, 2002
I work in a nursing home and we have an elderly man who is an Exclusive Bretheren, he can not sit and eat with us or join in with our activities, he is only allowed to talk to us if he has a problem, the family never say a word to us, what is it all about??? where is the harm in eating with others????? can some one help me to understand why the Bretherens have all these rules and what they all stand for????

Guest: Joe Croft
City, Country: Cornwall, UK.
Date & Comments: June 14, 2002
Hi folks.

Just a little note to say thanks to Dick for all he's done here. This is a great website.

My bio on the names page has now been updated a bit, with a piccy so you can all see how ugly I am in real life (I had to have it retouched so you don't all die of shock) !

Love to all

Joe Croft

Guest: Stuart Parry
Guest E-mail: tvservices@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Bristol [now in Aucland NZ}
Date & Comments: June 15, 2002
My whole family left the Peebs in 69 or thereabouts, just after Big Jim died anyway. We went to Hampton Lane room in Clifton. My parents were thrown out without being contacted or even told that the matter was going to be discussed. I was sick with glandular fever at the time and it was only when I was better and phoned a friend that I was told that they had been withdrawn from. Not that it mattered as we had already decided to leave anyway. If there are any out there who knew me or want to contact me I would love to hear from them.

Guest: Deborah (Phyllis) Hamilton
Date & Comments: June 15, 2002

Guest: Heather Dutra
Guest E-mail: hrdutra@yahoo.com
City, Country: Seattle, USA
Date & Comments: June 15, 2002
NOTE: NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS

Please contact me at the above address as the old one (Jordalie@yahoo) is no longer valid. Thanks!

Guest: Roger Stott
Guest E-mail: rogerstott@onetel.net.uk
City, Country: Exeter, Devon, England
Date & Comments: June 17, 2002
One of my partner Pamela (we get married in Australia on 21 September)'s cousins in Australia is anxious to trace a Brenda Lindsell who was the daughter of Cliff and Edith Lindsell of Eltham. Brenda's married name was initially Bliss but that marriage failed and she remarried to her cousin and got her original surname back. She had a daughter called Tanya.

If anyone is in touch with Brenda or knows where she is, could they let me know?

Many thanks
Roger Stott

Guest: Alan Clarke
Guest E-mail: alan@tullochlodge.co.uk
City, Country: Balquhidder, Scotland
Date & Comments: June 18, 2002
Ex-EBs Croydon UK, left in 1970. Remarried April 2002 to Joan Welch who is ex-London EBs. PLEASE NOTE CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS. Contact Joan at joan@tullochlodge.co.uk. Any news of my mother Mrs Joy Crane, or brothers Stuart and Julian Clarke, all in Croydon?

Guest: Valerie Waxman
Guest E-mail: hottiger66@hotmail.com
City, Country: Gold Coast /Australia
Date & Comments: June 19, 2002

Guest: Francis Mortyn
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: Southern California
Date & Comments: June 19, 2002
It is good to see that Pastor Ronnie Miller has discovered one of the positive fruits of Brethrenism - preservation and appreciation of the works of JND, a true scholar. Regrettably, though, as a presumed Evangelical Protestant, Pastor Miller may not recognize the dreadful sin of JND in turning his back on the One whom Christ loves as His espoused Bride, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I beg the good pastor to read, on this site under "Contributions," my essay on the Ordination of John Nelson Darby. Darby took a solemn vow then betrayed that commitment to pursue a course of schism. Naturally, suffering has followed that grievous sin. The Catholic Church, Anglican Communion, is worldwide and in Darby's Ordination was the Church of Ireland, but Darby in effect despised her and presumed to judge her. VERY bad. .. .

Guest: Anon
City, Country: Anonville, Anonshire
Date & Comments: June 20, 2002
Dear Br. Francis,

Do the words 'judge not lest ye be judged' mean anything to you? I refer of course to your words "the dreadful sin of JND ...".

Perhaps we could also consider the implications of Matthew 7:2-5.

Guest: Karen McClean (Hunte)
Guest E-mail: kmcclean@sunbeach.net or crazykaren10@hotmail.com
City, Country: Barbados
Date & Comments: June 20, 2002
Hello, I found the website very interesting. I was a brethren, I left 4 years ago. I am writing here in hope of finding my grandfather. He was never a closed brethren. However his wife and 2 daughters are. I know his surname is Moreland, he was married to Marjorie Moreland and had 2 children Marjorie Moreland and Debra Moreland, they lived in Cranford New Jersey, however I don't know where he is now and would love to meet him some day. I am not sure of his first name but I think it is Raymond. Please if anyone knows where I can contact him please email me. Karen McClean

Guest: Anon
Guest E-mail: none - sending from work web server
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: June 21, 2002
To 'Anon' who left a message on June 6 - there are many systems 'in which there was no room for Him' not just the 'Taylorites / Jims'. It is well known as well, that there are other groups of so-called exclusive brethren where the fear of man is just as prevalent. Most amongst them probably love the Lord more than their own position, but they exlude Him by their Pharasaical and Galation attitudes and demeanour, spoiling it for everyone. If only they were really close enough to the Lord Jesus to know and understand Him - full of grace and truth - things that elude the political and partisan.

Guest: Oliver Bedford
City, Country: Sydney, Australia (ex-UK)
Date & Comments: June 21, 2002
Regarding JND's mistakes (Francis and Anon), surely the most ludicrous was to ban the worship of the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, in direct contradiction of the Nicene Creed which he had subscribed to as an Anglican minister. Then JT Sr reintroduced such worship over 100 years later, as though it was some new revelation from God. Curious that the Jims (or Brucies, or whatever we should call them now)can't see the strange contradictions coming from infallible leaders ! So presumably they won't see anything strange about first, infallibly, banning fax machines and mobile phones and then, if Dick's information is correct, infallibly UNbanning them.

Guest: Jim Hamilton
Guest E-mail: wer4us@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Blenheim
Date & Comments: June 22, 2002
Hi to you all out there.
I would like to say hi to my 5 children.
Gorgina, Bert, Joseph, Laura & Maria

Just in case anyone of the 'Inside' Brethren happen to be seeking a peep on here. I am now happily married to Kerri (Chamberlain Christchurch NZ) she is one of the 'worldly' ones! and I honestly don't know how on earth she has stuck it out so far. We have two gorgous little rogues Jordan and Dylan.

If anyone wants to write us please forward to the above email address.

Guest: anonymous
City, Country: Melbourne Australia
Date & Comments: June 22, 2002
I have just read IN the news section of this site that there is to be:
"a reviewal of all those people that have left the brethren over the last 30 years, that those people are to be contacted again as:
"less than right decisions were made about them at the time".

Is this an admittance that the 'perfect' assembly does get it wrong? And that the tremendous damage done to poor souls at the time of excommunicating plus the family wrenching torment that follows, is just to be explained by,

  "OH! WE WERE WRONG THEN".

So, being wrong THEN....what makes them so RIGHT now?

I remain anonymous because of the widespread reading of this site and the not so pleasant replies that one can recieve.

Guest: pmclarke
Guest E-mail: clarke trim@shaw.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: June 22, 2002
) on Saturday, at 14:44:04 et.al

a couple of comments-first reguarding the "current voice of the Spirit" [or whatever the pb's use to justify changing their mind]. 30 odd years ago, when we left, we went to the people we had wronged, and sort of said, well, we were wrong, but at least we were "positionally right". Utter nonsense, and nothing more than pride.

To whoever is voicing opinions about "the one true position" - I will only say that anyone advancing this theory is no better than the PB's-who based their whole philosophy on having a "special message from God that no one else had". This is one of the prime warning signals of cult like thinking. When you stop and think about it, you are basically dictating to the Spirit of God, as to where He will go, and to who He will minister-a somewhat presumtious theory at best. There is only one assembly-one bride of Christ, and that takes in every person placing their trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross. Period.To go beyond that is without scriptural verification-no matter how dearly held, or historically claimed.

Guest: Bro. Francis CCN
Guest E-mail: frank59e@yahoo.com
City, Country: San Diego, California
Date & Comments: June 22, 2002
To Oliver Bedford and "anon." who are less than sympathetic with my critiques of John Nelson Darby, please take a moment to read my essay in the Contributions section of this site: "Newman, Bulteel and Darby." Evangelicalism was pushed to a level of absurdity and according to the author quoted in the posted essay, great harm was done to Christian witness and practice including even the genesis of the Oxford Movement. Darby had influence, and was influenced, far beyond the limits of Brethrenism and indeed beyond the C. of E. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church will prevail, we have Christ's promise for that, but apologists for Darby who would gloss over his defamation of the Lord's Espoused Bride might consider just how much evil fruits does it take to recognize that Darbyism is closer to the Gates of Hades than it is of the Fruits of the Spirit - please re-read Matt. 7:15-20, and Galatians 5:22. The fruits of Darby's schism are, IMHO, manifestly corrupt. If memory serves, Aligheiri Dante places schismatics in the lowest rung of his Inferno. Darby was a notable schismatic whose arrogance brought on 180 years of pain to Christians deluded by him. .. ..

Guest: Darren Clifford
Guest E-mail: dwc@paradise.net.nz
City, Country: Blenheim New Zealand
Date & Comments: June 23, 2002
Just looking around

Guest: Amazed
Guest E-mail: technology@exclusivebrethren.co.uk
City, Country: Worcester UK
Date & Comments: June 23, 2002
Oh well, let's get out there and sell them cellular phones, faxes and ladies electric shavers then if these snippets are to be believed. Who knows, TVs and radios tomorrow.

Guest: Sarah Rowlands
Guest E-mail: rowlie76@hotmail.com
City, Country: London, England
Date & Comments: June 24, 2002
I am now 26 and left the brethren in January 1999, I have been very happily married for just over three years.

My maiden name was Oliver and I lived in Basingstoke, in early 1997 that meeting closed and we all moved into Reading.

Would love to hear from ANYONE who remembers me.

Guest: Elizabeth Destouches (née Whiteman)
Guest E-mail: edestouches@libertysurf.fr
City, Country: Paris, France
Date & Comments: June 24, 2002
Eventually updating my email address. We moved back to France in April last year, so sorry if anyone has been trying to get in touch.

Guest: David A. Ridge
City, Country: Omaha, Nebraska. USA.
Date & Comments: June 24, 2002
I was the one who posted the comments on the token issue concerning hair posted on 17 June. Concerning its idolatry. I thank you for posting my comments. I really did not think that they would be posted. I was feeling a little low that week. Thanks again. WOW!

I might suggest an easier way to save at least the text from each page of your web site instead using Adobe™ Acrbat™ Reader™. This will not save pictures. Uh, click on "File" then come dowm to "Save as" and click on that. In the window that pops up click the down arrow in "Save as type" then click and hightlight "Text File (*.txt)." In the field below that select your "Encoding." Now, before you click "Save as" you may change the file name in the "File name" field. To make sure that the document is saved as a text file I add the ".txt" extention.