This page contains entries 901 through current in the guestbook. Entries were made after February 7, 2001.
These names and addresses are posted to enable people to contact friends and loved ones. Please do not exploit this information for commercial purposes.
Guest: Colleen Taylor (nee) Pedersen
Guest E-mail: colleentaylor66@hotmail.com
City, Country: Pialba Hervey Bay Queensland
Date & Comments: February 10, 2001
Guest: Gregory Morris
Guest E-mail: deiniolgpm@btinternet.com
City, Country: Hawarden N. Wales/Penarlâg, Gogledd Cymru
Date & Comments: February 10, 2001
Guest: Hannah Prestidge
Guest E-mail: hannah_prestidge@hotmail.com
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: February 10, 2001
I have just heard about this site and am very interested to find anyone that I may have known. I am 25 years old and left the exclusive bretheren when I was 17.
Guest: Wendy G Currie
Guest E-mail: wc@paradise.net.nz
Date & Comments: February 10, 2001
Guest: Elizabeth Jobbins (nee Bell)
Guest E-mail: liz.jobbins@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Hartlepool, UK
Date & Comments: February 11, 2001
I have noticed a cousin's name and e-mail address in the Guestbook. This is a good idea. God bless!
Guest: Margot
Guest E-mail: dutchknight101@yahoo.com
City, Country: Vancouver, Canada
Date & Comments: February 12, 2001
Any news about Paul and Anne Knight (nee Moseley) now living in Peterhead Scotland, formerly from Doncaster, UK and their children
(& grandchildren) Steven, Libby, Annemarie, William, Susie and John) is very very welcome.
Guest: Christine Graham
Guest E-mail: chrison@fan.net.au
City, Country: Bli Bli Queensland Australia
Date & Comments: February 15, 2001
Left the Ex's about 40 years ago in Coventry England. If anyone remembers us please email me I would love to hear from you. I now fellowship with the Revival fellowship on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland and I praise the Lord I was freed from this sect and found the true meeting of being a Christian. Not under law but under grace.
Guest: Prudence Forster (nee Codd)
Guest E-mail: orbitas@compuserve.com
City, Country: Nottingham
Date & Comments: February 15, 2001
My father recently died aged 94 yrs. As he was still in fellowship I was only informed of his death some 17 hours later- despite being assured if he ever became seriously ill I would be informed and able to visit. As it transpired we were only permitted to attend very brief service at graveside. We were told that the service in the meeting hall would be traumatic and not appropriate to attend. What was strange the mention of "blood brother" on no fewer than three times in a very short address by a fellow brother of my father's. Does anybody have any comment.
Guest: Tim Harding
Guest E-mail: tim@deo-gloria.co.uk
City, Country: South Croydon, England
Date & Comments: February 15, 2001
Following an earlier enquiry about the Hope family of Derby, I now understand that John Hope, oldest son in a family of five, left the EBS 9 or 10 years ago. Does anyone know his whereabouts? Any news would be appreciated by his cousin Jeanette Taylor, of 5 Station Place, Peterhead, AB42 1SQ (no e-mail). I will forward information to her.
Guest: Chester Lindsay Taylor
Guest E-mail: taylorcl123@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: February 15, 2001
Hi. If anyone out there would like to speak to me please feel free to do so.
Guest: Philip Gillmore Kerkham
City, Country: Surbiton Surrey England
Date & Comments: February 16, 2001
Guest: Jasper Dormer, formerly Philip
Guest E-mail: dormers@hemingstone.fsbusiness.co.uk
City, Country: Ipswich Suffolk, formely Chelmsford&barnet
Date & Comments: February 16, 2001
Left 1987, recently got onto web, thought I'd see who was out there that might remember David (my dad), my 6 brothers or little old me, 33 years old on 28 Feb, eeeeeeeeeee me for a chat but don't get heavy stay cooooooooool
Guest: vanessa Janson
City, Country: Geraldine sth cant
Date & Comments: February 17, 2001
just saying hi to everyone
Guest: Vanessa Janson
City, Country: Orginally from Hastings New Zealand
Date & Comments: February 17, 2001
Hi there .. this is for Esther Mclean
My name is Vanessa Janson and I am orginally from Hastings too... Did you move there or from there as there were no Mcleans when I left the EBS in 86 15 years ago... You will probably know my brother Seth .... which I haven't seen properly since he was 7 years old, he is now 22. Esther the pain and suffering fades eventually.. And you will always love them no matter what and what anybody says... I know exactally how you feel as I plucked up the courage at 19 years of age and ran away..
It has now been 15 years ... just remember you are not going to hell.. My father told me that (Leon Janson) and I told him ok I will meet you there then he he .. You are just thinking for yourself and they do not like it.. But one thing was I got the hell out of Hastings and started getting on with my life... I know it is hard Esther but remember it as been 15 years and you one. Hold up your head girl and smile... Life is for enjoying ,,, not been sad.. and it is easier been said than done... I think these days people should go to councilling of some sort... Esther it is easy to be bitter but one has to look forward to the future ... be happy that you have been saved from an evil fundemental cult. And that is hard to except too... They will try to intimidate you... but smile give them a big wave... Esther you have done a brave thing but one has to come to the conclusion that one has to get on with life or dwell on it.. Then if you dwell on it you end up all bitter and twisted and life it not worth doing that.... I do understand how some of the ones that have left have become bitter. but honestly it is not worth it... My parents Leon and Adelheid Janson of Hastings and my two brothers Seth and Gustaf and my sister Desiree Powell are the only ones left in the church... my fathers side well his parents were the last ones to leave in 73 .. and my mothers side were never in... but I never knew them exceopt my fathers parents and when I grew up we would have to walk on the other side of the road... I could never understand it.. the mind boggles at the concept..he eh eh As I grew up there where many things that came to light and disgusted me... So I left and now have a new family whom are thankful that one have had the brains to leave that cult... Fortunetly I have a husband that is very good to me and family.
Esther all I can say is sometimes we got to take the bull by the horns and say that is it .. i am not going to dwell on it.... Honestly Esther it is not worth it... Yes put up a wall if you have to Esther and no you are not gooing to hell.. ok??? To be a good person you don't have to go to church... I don't ... I believe in being me... accept people for how they are... Just remember you are not better than anyone else but better than the EBS (hanky heads)... because you had the guts to stand up to them.. I admit life was hard but my other half has helped me a lot and I realise that I don't have to live up to other people expectations... Esther you know well I have been out for 15 years and 13 years ago I transfered myself into Timaru for work and so I carried on working in the public eye not giving it one thought... The ebs came through my aisle for a couple of months and I treated them as I would anyone else... friendly but after that they suddenly though I never knew any of them started pointing at me, standing stareing at me,,, there she is,, that is that lady,,,, sending the kids to search to see where I was sitting so they could stand there and stare.. They were so rude to me and still are two years later... On Saturdays they often bring in the outer towners to see what I look like... How pathic rude discusting attutide... This Esther made me realise thank god I am not one of them.. How lucky I was when I did get out.. You know what? If they accidently come in my aisle,, they will throw their groceries back in the trolley and take off... While I am sitting there laughing my head off because they have shown themselves up to be ...ignorant. Let's tell the truth... So called christains he he he So Esther I hold my head up high and give them a big wave and smile... he he eh they do not like that and it embrasses them... I have even cornered some of them and asked what is that problem??? Do I know you??? Why are you stareing??? They can never answer Esther... This is so redicious and unbelivable... You know Esther I spent New Years at Rotorua for a family reuion getting to know all my cousins that I have never met 175 of them in New Zealand Holland beligum etc... Esther they found out where I worked because Seth told them... I do not know how Seth found out... but that is life you deal with it and get on with it... Esther I will always think of you ... and do not give up because your will be hell if you ever do go back... it willl screw you up if you let it so please don't let it... it nearly did it to me... and I nearly went back... but remember people do love you Esther and get on life girl... must be away know take care love Vanessa Janson
Guest: Lucy, sorry not real name
City, Country: West Country England
Date & Comments: February 18, 2001
Dear Dick
In response to Vanessa Janson's recent entry, would you consider a page devoted to intimidation and harrasment as it does seem to be widespread, we have suffered also. I don't have Vanessa's strength of character as of yet to commit it to your website, fearful of further repercussions, as they would surely know who we were. We just want to get on with our lives in as peaceful way as possible, without physcologigal intimidation and bullying resulting in both my husband and myself being prescribed tranquilisers. Vanessa I think you are a star.
In God we trust
p.s. I looked at hotmail and you have to give details of address, can they find this out?
See MSN Hotmail Privacy Statement.
Guest: Vanessa Janson
Date & Comments: February 18, 2001
In response to Lucy's article... I know exactly how you feel ... I just wanted to lead a very quite life down under.... away from the hussles... And when that got throw in my face I admit it was very hard,,, I used to be quite upset till one day I woke up and realised what they where trying to do..... So basically try to throw it back in their faces.. Lucy... Try to get of those tranqulisers... Give them a big smile and be happy Lucy.... remember I am still dealing with it day to day 5 days a week ... Move if you have to... but better still fight back...
vanessa
Guest: Vanessa Janson
Date & Comments: February 18, 2001
Lucy I forgot to say I am not a star just another human being that also has been through hell just like you,,,,, I just hope I have helped some people
A friend vanessa
Guest: Julian Smith
Guest E-mail: julians@actrix.gen.nz
City, Country: New Zealand
Date & Comments: February 19, 2001
Guest: Valerie Lovatt-Smith
Guest E-mail: valiant@globe.net.nz
City, Country: NZ
Date & Comments: February 19, 2001
Hello Vanessa
It's a long time since I saw you, glad to hear you are doing well...the only way to go is forward...but all of us have had to let go our baggage some time or other & from time to time old ghosts of the past haunt us. My family had a lot to do with your grandparents & we regard the Janson family as part of our own. You may be interested to know that I have remarried recently & am very happy. Sharon would like to hear from you, she's in Whangerei now, saw them at xmas & had a neat time. Love Val (nee Smith)
Guest: Lorraine Materman (nee Turley)
Guest E-mail: matermanmob@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Palmerston North, NEW ZEALAND
Date & Comments: February 19, 2001
It would be wonderful to catch up with anyone
I once knew in the Exclusive Brethren. Some may
know me as Lorraine Turley, or in later times
Lorraine Prestidge (Hawera).
I am now a believer and would love to chat with any one else who didn't know Jesus as their Saviour until leaving the Church.
Guest: Thomas
Guest E-mail: thomdylan@hotmail.com
City, Country: Sydney, Australia
Date & Comments: February 20, 2001
for Lucy
I agree with Vanessa, go see your doctor. Tell him what is happening, get therapy, it's not a dirty word, get off those tranqilisers, they are as addictive as is alcohol and they only mask the problem. If hotmail gave out private information they would collapse overnight, you dont have to give you real name, make one up , it's not bad to do that. I have contacts in Bristol Bath and Swindon, who can help I worked for people there who have supplied information to a family who have suffered rough justice at the hands of the jims fom the lady of the house being struck on the head by objects thrown from the jims garden, criminal damage a fence torn down, the appeaser refused to call the police as he says it is a crummy fence and the latest I have heard the jims have built something part of which is his in these peoples garden and they joined their house in building work to them,there sewers are joined it was only when my friends pointed out fire risks that the revolving cheek(turn the other cheek)that guys head was giong to fall off that he agreed to do something about it, sorry for being so direct, but see lucy if you let them walk over you they will do it all the time. Please Lucy get a hotmail address please write me no one will know who you are. I will be back in england in july for a wedding. remember god is love satan is hate, try to forgive it doesnt change anything but god will bless you. I wouldnt have written this only for Vanessa, you sound like a good person V. There is to much cruelty in the world.
yours
thomas
ps Dicks site is a haven from the storms. thank you Dick
Guest: Valerie Lovatt-Smith
Guest E-mail: valiant@globe.net.nz
City, Country: NZ
Date & Comments: February 20, 2001
IN reply to LUCY
I was touched when I read your entry about harassment&intimidation. Lucy, you can only be intimidated if you LET them intimidate you...I know it's easy to say & hard to do, but know yourself & know that you are worth a way too much to let this happen to you! You have to be strong & count not only your strength (which I know you have) but also strength in the God you trust & also many people on these pages will be strengthing you in thought & prayer. I may never have met you but I care about you & your family because of the road we have travelled & understand the pain of seperating from loved ones & everything that was formely familiar to us. But Lucy...remember it's worth the fight to have the precious freedom we have gained despite the awful sacrifices we have made!! Freedom of choice, freedom of lifestyle, freedom of your expression of belief...it's worth it Lucy, and I know I'm not the only one thinking & praying for you.
Just remember Lucy, that what is happening to you, the harassment & intimidation is evil...it's evil because its been done by people who profess to be christians,therefore it is being done in the name of the Lord, and that is so WRONG.
Take courage, stand together with your husband & stand up for whats right...your right to freedom, keep on the good fight & in time you will find how strong you really are!! My thoughts are with you & your family...take good care of yourselves & know we are all behind you!!
Best wishes Val
Guest: John Gibbs
Guest E-mail: JGibbs@hatch.co.za
City, Country: Jo'burg SA
Date & Comments: February 21, 2001
I would like to contact Barbara Lloyd (England) if she is out of the EB's.
I believe my parents stayed with her directly after the Aberdeen meetings and I would like to find out their reaction before they were "persuaded" to accept the official line.
If anyone could give me her address I would be grateful.
Guest: Peter Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@home.com
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: February 21, 2001
Re:Harassment by Pb's-It is pretty evident that Pb's have become the ''Pharisee"s of Christendom. When you go through the New Testiment, and you read of the pharisee's hatred of the Lord, and how they tried to discredit him at every opportunity, even accusing him of healing a man on sabbath, and all the while claiming they were ''being faithful'' to their religeon. What they were really protecting was their own grip on the people'' they bind on burdens hard to bear, and will not lift their finger to help them''Sound familiar?Our Lord was marked by compassion, and the common people flocked to Him. He bound up the wounded, and healed the sick. He didn't come for the rightous, He came for the sinners.He said''Go thou, and do likewise'' That's Christianity.
Guest: Nigel & Rosanne Herbert
Guest E-mail: NPHerbert@aol.com or RIMHerbert@aol.com
City, Country: Cardiff, South Wales, UK
Date & Comments: February 21, 2001
In Reply to "Lucy":
Lucy:
All of us on here are really glad you took the time and made the effort to post your recent entry on Dick's Guestbook. Your experiences are something which many of us can relate to, having experienced for ourselves the apparent 'callousness' and 'coldness' of those we've once enjoyed real closeness too.
However, be brave, as others have suggested. My (perhaps naive yet arrogant) view is their failure to treat us with normal decent courtesy which any human being would show to any other, is not what our Lord and Saviour would have done, and at the end of the day, is their loss, not ours.
If we can be of any support or assistance in any way, don't hesitate to contact us. Clearly we are located nearby in the South West/South Wales vicinity. Our contact details are listed on Dick's EB Railroad.
Greetings to all who know us.
Guest: Silvia
Guest E-mail: johnniesgirl31@hotmail.com
City, Country: Victoria Australia
Date & Comments: February 21, 2001
The eb's have always been such a mystery to me. Walking down our streets, I have often come across these mysteries ladies who avoid eye contact and seem to be trapped in some time warp. It was something that I found mysterious and hence when i discovered this site while researching a question one of my students asked me about the eb's. I was overwhelmed by what I have discovered. Thank you for sharing your experiences everyone and I would very much appreciate to know more. Internet is indeed a wonderful thing.
Guest: Andrew (Bill) Paulsen
Guest E-mail: apaulsen@telusplanet.net
City, Country: Calgary Alberta Canada (formerly from Camden N.S.W. Australia)
Date & Comments: February 24, 2001
Thank God for a sense of humor it helps get me thru good and bad I recall telling my father about the circus elephant that fell flat on its back during its stage performance, it was a big balls up, He didnt even crack a smile his rebuke followed and only served to encourage further storytelling.
John and Bruce Hales were enjoying a Saturday afternoon at Manly beach they had just finished shopping for bathing suits that were small enough to fit their elect vessels. Finally they got them on after padding their egos with a couple of Symington white books to impress the bevy of beauties present at the beach with their bulging endowments, they were wandering along the shoreline bellowing about their importance to anyone who would listen and a deaf couple actually heard them when a freak rogue wave that Bruce didnt see and John hadnt predicted picked them up and swept them out to sea, John swam with the sharks for a while but like Jonah did not see the great whale and was swallowed holusbolus but got spat out immediately and drowned. Bruce also drowned after getting entangled in a large jellyfish. Straight to Hell they both went they were frozen to the bone after being in the water so long so they stole a couple of winter parkas from Jim Symington and Josef Stalin and snuggled up to the nearest fire to warm up and dry off. Bruce and John made freinds immediately Hannibal Lectur and Jeffrey Dahmer gave them something to eat while Pol Pot amused them with campfire stories about twisted mind control. Well the Devil heard the Hales boys had arrived came over to their fire and noticed they were wearing stolen parkas and asked them what the heck they were doing dressed up like that because its very hot in Hell. John replied that they were in charge of the Exclusive Brethren a callous fundamentalist christian sect and the requirements for doing so was being a cold blooded flesh eating reptile and that they found the change from home somewhat enjoyable. The Devil responded and said that Saddam Hussein would soon be checking in and that the Hales boys would be sharing a room with nasty King Scud and that in the meantime he wasnt running a vacation resort he was running Hell and that the Hales boys better not get to comfortable. The Devil cranked up the heat everyone started screaming (except for John and Bruce) Pol Pot dehydrated so much that he was skinnier than a skeleton, Josef Stalin started wailing Siberian folksongs and Jim Symington became transparent as well as incoherent,the Devil checked in on the 2 Hales boys to see how they were handling the heat only to find they had discarded their stolen coats and were prancing about in their speedos and were asking Richard Nixon when Monica Lewinsky was going to be available to smoke a cigar or two in the meantime they would settle for a bottle of scotch whiskey with Jim Taylor and Zsa Zsa Gabor. The Devil was getting mighty pissed these guys could take more heat than the wackos from Waco and Jim Jones had already laced Taylors scotch with poison so the Devil had to think of something else. The Devil did the unprecedented he turned the thermostat down to minus 70 C and after an hour went to check on the Hales troublemakers he passed by numerous frozen bodies Josef Stalin was still twitching until he came around the corner the Hales boys had put their stolen parkas back on and were dancing around high fiving each other, the Devil was furious and demanded to know ,What the hell is going on I turned up the heat and you loved it I turned it way downand you are even happier,I dont get it. John and Bruce turned to the Devil with an evil grin on their faces "Hell has frozen over" that means that everything we said was going to happen is the truth.
Guest: Vanessa Janson
City, Country: Geraldine New Zealand
Date & Comments: February 24, 2001
Hi there Val Lovett-Smith.
HI there Stranger... he he he... Just caught your note and thanks very much... I am very glad you are happy ... And just to say I am very happy too... I am myself getting married very soon but do not wish to say when as sum ebs do scan these outfitss... We just want sum peace and quiet on our day without hanky heads gathering uup and watching... Will let you know after... and the Change of Name.. Yes I did get in contact with Sharon about Oct last year.. Some times one needs to chill out... Yes I remember our family used to have a bit to do with your family,. your dad was very good to us ... And that friendship continued until I left .. I used to get on quiet well with Kevin and his wife... when I grew up... Oh well I must be away...Val Take care Lots of love Vanessa
Guest: An Admirer
City, Country: Hollywood
Date & Comments: February 24, 2001
Bill,
I WANT THE FILM RIGHTS!
Don't dare talk to anyone else ...
A.A.
Guest: Bernt Lindberg
Guest E-mail: berntlindberg@swipnet.se
City, Country: Sweden
Date & Comments: February 26, 2001
Guest: Sophie Dummer
Guest E-mail: sophiedummer@hotmail.com
City, Country: London
Date & Comments: February 26, 2001
Just thought I should let you all know that one of my mates has been 'shut up' following and registering and commenting on this guest list. It is almost certain that if this site is not been monitered by the peebs themselves, then some who do access this site are reporting back to them. So if you are still in, please do be careful using your own name.
much love to you all,
Sophie
Guest: Daniel SoukoreffDaniel
Guest: Adrian
City, Country: Devon, England
Date & Comments: February 27, 2001
I read Lawries poem as a compliment to your web site Dick, very moving. Lucy keep your chin up,and my eyes nearly popped out of my head reading the hales bros chronicles, before bursting out laughing, terrific.
On a more serious note, please have a thought in your hearts for British farmers, as 'foot and mouth disease', in cloven animals, ie cows, pigs, sheep etc, appears to be spreading, threatening absolute disaster for many of the hardest working people there are. There have been many suicides in the farming community, dear folk driven to their wits end, knockback, following knockback. God help them.
Guest: Still Inside
Guest E-mail: sorry I do not have one
City, Country: U.S.A.
Date & Comments: February 28, 2001
Thank you Dick for maintaining this site as it has been an encouragement to me.As I said before I am still "inside" and must be very carefull. I know it seems easy for some to just leave, but I want to take my family with me. Someone said they may monitor this site! Nothing would surprise me as they are likely to. Pray for us as it is not easy to free yourself from something that has been your life. I only hope my wife can see it more clearly, even though she is upset with what is going on. Two families left in Detroit because they felt wrong things have been said by the Brethren. They are real christians but since they left the brethren have said they were evil.
Thank you,
Looking forward to being free
Guest: A free bird
City, Country: USA
Date & Comments: February 28, 2001
I am delighted that more and more EB are discovering this website, especially the ones that want to leave the cold bony clutches of the so called Beloved Brethren who have no idea of the impact they have on the splitting up of families, denying visitation of children and individual spirits who long to be free just like the rest of us XEB. Until you leave the brethren you will not know the feeling of a noose being removed from around your neck. Naturally, there will be mixed emotions after leaving the cult but time is a good healer and you have a chance to discover that you actually do have a mind of your own which you probably didn't know you had before because it was suppressed. There are plenty of us that are willing to help you get back on your feet, just look at this page of useful information by clicking on it. http://www.cloudnet.com/~dwyman/survivalnames.html
As others have written...it is not surprising that the EB priests and the so called heavies are spying on this Guestbook and other entries. I thought the Communism era had finished long ago. I say (to the spies) give it up and stop picking on those that dare to write here asking for help. Isn't it frightening to see that you may be losing some of your power over those that want to leave ...eh? Shouldn't that be an indication that you are doing something wrong if folks want to leave the brethren?
So if any of the dispirited EB are reading this, I say 'Go for it!' It is not as bad as you fear, leaving the brethren. You are the stronger ones.
From 'One who has learned to laugh and live again'
Guest: James Devenish
Guest E-mail: jd20403@i-one.at
City, Country: Austria
Date & Comments: 1 March 2001
It is distressing to me to see that the Brethren still exert power and control over their members by obviously monitoring this web-site ( see posting by Sophie Dummer). Either 'responsible' brothers are reading the pages of the site, 'for the good of the whole', or they are using 'reliable' non-brethren sources, in the same way that they use fax machines of others, rather than own one themselves.
It is a bit like saying 'I don't own a gun, because it is wrong to kill' and then borrowing a gun from someone to blow somebody's brains out. Okay, I am exaggerating, but the Brethren's hypocritical stance of everything they believe in should be exposed. They claim to be moral, clean living citizens;their leader was found in a compromising position with a married woman. They claim that computers are evil; but use computers to publish their propaganda. They claim the internet is evil; but monitor this web site to make sure no member is straying from the path. They say fax machines are evil; but are happy to use one belonging to someone else.
So if somebody is desperate to leave this cult and if they by perchance should leave a posting on this site, then they can expect a knock from Brethren 'priests'. Serious looking men arriving to censure and punish the offender. What they are doing not only is contrary to the Christian faith but is an abuse of the individuals human right to free speech. So if you are a 'responsible' brother reading this, bear in mind that not only what you are doing is against what you claim to believe in, but is unchristian in character. If you are someone who is looking for a way out of the cult and you want to leave a message, please, please don't be put off by the Brethren's supposedly long reaching tentacles, we will support you. We have left and like an earlier correspondent said, have learned to laugh again. We can help you find your feet, we can also support you against the Brethren who will do everything in their power to stop anyone leaving. Ask yourselves this? Jesus sent the disciples out to proclaim the glad tidings, the good news. How many new converts do the Brethren embrace from outside their numbers? The answer will tell you that the Brethren are a self-contained cult, whose growth is almost solely from within, from a regime of fear and legalism and of course through no birth control!
Guest: John Barber
Guest E-mail: john.barber1@virgin.net
City, Country: Southend, England
Date & Comments: March 1, 2001
Firstly, having a sense of humour is great and nextly being sanctimonious isn't but I felt uncomfortable with the guest book entry dated February 24. I realise it was making a serious point in a humourous way but my objections are:
This website serves a great function, especially for encouraging ex-XB casualties, for example "the Guestbook" poem that same day was spot on. Why spoil what the website is trying to achieve with unwholesome material?
Guest: Susan Diener
Guest E-mail: susanjohn59@mindspring.com
City, Country: Oak Park, Illionois, USA
Date & Comments: March 1, 2001
Just to let you know, we have changed our e-mail address; susanjohn59@mindspring.com
We are both doing okay, John has just retired, so it is different having him home all day.
A big hello to everyone who know us. Take care.
Guest: K
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: March 2, 2001
Hi Dick
I might have already posted this site to you, or maybe you know of it, hope it's useful.
John Nelson Darby: The Father of Premellennial Dispensationalism
also a web page from a hebraic point of view which proposes, I quote "The following treatise will undoubtedly come as a shock to those who have accepted the modern-day concept of a halo-crowned Saul-of-Tarsus-demigod. Those believers who have unquestioningly bowed before this popular conjured-up, Pauline image, will be greatly distressed by the truths that are herein unfolded concerning these matters"
Apostle Paul v. the Law of God, Gospel of Grace
My knowledge is insufficient to verify, the truth of content, but it may be of interest. It is certainly an extensive treatise, and not as they put it " NOT because we have any desire to belittle this apostle; but rather that the false overrated image of this man might crumple and fall and the Messiah might be exalted to His rightful superior position."
a friend
K
Guest: Peter Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@home.com
City, Country: Victoria, BC
Date & Comments: March 2, 2001
PB's monitoring this website?I certainly hope so!If they are reading these posts,then they will see that many peoplw who have left, have given their testimony that they came to know the Lord after they left. The Pb's deny that such a thing could happen, and nothing enrages them more.They have taken the position that they ''are the church''-a position that JND said he would leave any company making that claim]The facts are that the PB position that they alone are ''vessels to honour'' is an insult to the work of God in every believer.Futher to that, the pb claim that everyone who leaves, is ''evil'' is further evidence that this group, once faithful to the Lord, has assumed cult like status, and have truely become the Pharisee's of Christendom.We need to pray for their deliverance.While they have caused much grief and harm in following the delusions of their power hungry leaders, the real charge against them is they have apposticized from the faith.
Guest: Ted and Esther Druckenmiller
Guest E-mail: teddruck@quixnet.net
City, Country: Warren, New Jersey, USA
Date & Comments: March 3, 2001
Suggestion:
The majority of the signers of this guest book have been among the EB's, correct? That means we have been instructed in some measure in the Holy Scriptures. The extent of the effect of this teaching is seen in the way we have responded in our attitude to our fellowmen; those never in the exclusives, those who have been in and those who sadly are still held captive to its hold.
My plea is that we begin to truly study the Word of God. His Holy mind is conveyed in His Word. I personally do not know a greater need that to be instructed in Biblical truth. I would just like to share four helps that Esther and I have found which have proved a very definite help to us giving tremendous comfort to our hearts as we wait for our blessed Lord Jesus to grant deliverance to our many brethren and four precious children and their 27+ children (our grandchildren) missed for 23 years and still captive to this religious system which once held us captive.
These helps are: (1) RBC's Ministries Daily Bread, sent to any request to PO Box 2222, Grand Rapids, MI 49501-2222. (2) Charles Stanley's In Touch booklet obtainable from IN Touch Minitries PO Box 7900, Atlanta , GA 30357. (3) Daily Walk this provides a daily passage aiding the reading of the Bible in one year. And (4) Finally and possibly the most encouragement of all, Bible Study Fellowship, BSF, a world wide coordinated Bible study with a weekly study location quite probably close to your home. Take a look on the Internet at www.bsfinternational.org. Find the location for the men or women's study location nearest you and check it out. Believe me, you will be glad you did.
We have in our hearts tremendous love and affection firstly, for Dick Wyman for his wonderful work to provide this site and for all of you who have contributed your comments to it. I suggest we should have another Reunion somewhere in the near future.
With affectionate greetings in Jesus to all,
Ted and Esther Druckenmiller
Guest: Susan G. Sovereign (Peebles)
Guest E-mail: sgsiml8@icqmail.com
City, Country: Richmond Hill, ON, Canada
Date & Comments: March 3, 2001
Dear John Barber, Southend, England
March 1, 2001
Please, I mean no offence by the following, but I simply must respond. Even God has a sense of humour.
I'm writing in response to your posting ... "Why spoil what the web site is trying to achieve with unwholesome material?" After being raised in a place where the "Freedom of Speech" (or thought for that matter) was highly discouraged, at the very least, I do not believe you have the right to censor this site, or judge this person. "Judge not lest ye be judged" ... isn't that how it goes?
Whether it be humour to some, or distasteful to some. Dick must have thought it was within his acceptable boundaries, or he wouldn't have posted it.
"Hell is too serious and solemn a subject to joke about." For you, some of us cope by having a sense of humour, even about such things!
"Belittling anyone, however much one dislikes what they do, is ungracious and therefore unchristian." Did this person say they were a Christian? I didn't realize being born a EB automatically made you one, whether you be in or out! "THE" church has spoiled the spirit in many, because of 'MAN's TRUTH', they have turned from God and his word, in any form.
"bad language is inappropriate even in the hard secular world in which we live." What bad language??? Sorry, I've heard much worse in their "Meeting" and read in their "Ministry". I say "Their" because I am no longer a part of "Them", nor do I feel I ever really was!
In short.... Chill, Relax, Take a Pill, Smell the Roses, or, better still, simmer down.
Under God's Grace, Susan
Guest: Bob Spratt
Guest E-mail: bob@greenstones.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: KENDAL, Cumbria, England
Date & Comments: March 3, 2001
Thanks Ted and Esther for your reminder of the wonderful things that can be found in the Bible and for pointing us in the direction of some of these helps - including RBC.
In Europe the address of RBC is - PO Box 1, CARNFORTH, Lancashire LA5 9ES, England. I am sure they will be happy to send their Daily Bread Study notes to enquirers in this part of the world.
In the prisons where I am privileged to minister we find the material of Emmaus Bible School very useful in helping the prisoners to explore the Bible. The UK address is:- Emmaus Bible School UK, Carlett Boulevard, Eastham, Wirral CH62 8BZ.
God bless
Bob
Guest: Shelley
Guest E-mail: abaya@nw.com.au
City, Country: Perth, Western Australia
Date & Comments: March 3, 2001
I have discovered that my great great grandparents were Plymouth Brethren. They were married in the house of Revd Alfred Brunton(?), Rattray Street, Dunedin, New Zealand in 1897. There names John Wilson McDONALD and Margaret Elizabeth (nee CROSBY).
Margaret remarried in 1912 to Shepherd HUGHES, and was listed as 'divorced'. She had the children with her, and the resulting family (grandchildren etc) have no knowledge of what became of John.
My guess is that one of my gg grandparents was 'put out'.......which resulted in the divorce.
Can anyone provide any info about John Wilson McDONALD or what became of him, or info about the Plymouth Brethren in Dunedin circa 1897.
Many thanks.
Guest: Charles Tickle
Guest E-mail: seewt@juno.com
City, Country: Omaha, USA
Date & Comments: March 5, 2001
I must supoport what was said in the post by John Barber March 1,2001. Perhaps, and I repeat perhaps the Hales bros. are saved. If not they certainly need our prayers and not condemnation as it is God who judges. I am only one person with no impact on this site but I have to say if we continue downward what is there to lift us up?
I have personally had a run in with the Hales' but hold no ill feelings because I know in my heart they were wrong. Heb. 12:15
Guest: Peter B. Howell
Guest E-mail: Peter18423@aol.com
City, Country: Salinas Cal. USA
Date & Comments: March 5, 2001
Just spent a few hours reading the posting in this wonderful site. Just returned from New Jersey where I attended my Father's funneral service. Father passed away on Feb 26th 2001.
It is so sad that 3 of his childern did not attend due to their continued belief that since father left the brethern they could have no fellowship with us. Please pray for those still caught up in the PB's that they may somday soon see the light.
Thank-You Dick for this site
Guest: W. Bradley McCallum
Guest E-mail: knighthighlander@aol.com
City, Country: Chicago, IL, USA
Date & Comments: March 6, 2001
Just a note to say good morning to all. I have now moved to Chicago, from Detroit, and would love to hear from anyone. Please remember, if you are passing through, it would be great to see you. Peace, Bradley McCallum
Guest: Murray Linton
Guest E-mail: Mcleansed@aol.com
City, Country: Guildford, Surrey
Date & Comments: March 6, 2001
Very interesting web site. I was never 'in' but spent a very blessed two years in fellowship with 'outs' meeting at Southfield Hall, Edinburgh. I cannot begin to imagine the pain and hurt so many have gone through but can only be most thankful I have never had to experience anything similar myself. I am in touch with several who have been in the system both in Scotland and down here in England. It is sad to see so few 'out' meetings and so few in them. Presumably many have found their way into churches leaving behind them as painful memories meetings such as the breaking of bread and bible readings, but my concern is that such meetings will soon die out, whereas they have and should continue to be a blessing for all.
Although knowing very little about them, I find that the 'ins' here in Guildford preach a very good gospel message in the open air each week day in a prominent position in the centre of town. Can they really believe what they are preaching and stay in?
I hope that it may prove an encouragement to those who have come out and are still in meetings to know that an 'outsider' has come among you and found much encouragement and blessing. But whatever party hat we wear or name we call ourselves let's hope and pray that our dear Lord Jesus may receive further glory by many who are still in darkness receiving a great light and by those who have already received it walking in it.
I would very much appreciate hearing from anyone and thank you for taking the time to read this.
Guest: Danielle - (not my real name - sorry !!!)
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 7, 2001
Hi,
I have been trying to find some info for many years - have no family past or present involved, but a very good 'friend' from high school - and was thinking of joining - instead of sneaking around all the time to just be able to spend time together?
Guest: Daniel Lee
Guest E-mail: LimeyBrit@aol.com
City, Country: Durham NC, USA
Date & Comments: March 7, 2001
Dear Dick.
I have "cut and paste" some excerpts below, but not the names. All the pieces come from pages 18 and 19 of the guest book, with the exception of one from the leadership discussion in correspondence. I am trying to paint a general picture for you: I am interested in the concept, not who said it. I observe some people in denial. (It can't happen, surely it wasn't that bad, it didn't happen, etc.) Others seem to me to be afraid of free speech - the right for which we have all striven so hard. Some, even, assume to be The Judge here on earth already. I challenge everyone to be ambassadors for truth, openness, and authenticity. Life is beautiful, fragile, and short. We have seen where we got through being "right." Let's try something different for the second half. We see where we got to, hiding our heads in the sand, calling it all by a different name, wishing it were different than it was. Let's call it what it is and get on. Let's laugh at ourselves for being sucked in for so long, and through our laughing give permission to forgive ourselves. Above all, don't repeat it all again under a different guise. My dad always laughed at the saying "history repeats itself - it has to - nobody listens." Let's don't repeat ourselves because we didn't listen the first time either.
Consider the juxtaposition of the next two comments with the third.
Apparently they can and do. And aparently to pretty disasterous effect. Just in case we don't remember from our own experiences in the Ebs, perhaps we should all read "Hitler's willing executioners" Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen (Paperback - February 1997) - an indictment of a whole nation. People could and did back then too. Look how far that went too.
Or consider this from the correspondence section:
Received 28 January 2001
I just cannot believe such a picture exists, sorry. Let's keep this real folks.
Theses next quotes are follow-ups from people who evidently didn't like something about a previous entry. They are not simple rebuttals of fact though, nor critiques of the author's thesis, but subjective judgements, illustrating more about where the writer is coming from than the original author.
but I have to say if we continue downward what is there to lift us up?
Since when is comedy downward? Truth telling through humor? Is it not uplifting to realize the folly of the past and to be able to declare that we won't be led that way again? Ex-Ebs of all people should surely have as their mission in life, to make sure that they and others are not leading people blindly in a dogmatic and cult like manner again.
Why spoil what the website is trying to achieve with unwholesome material?
Where's this one going? Unwholesome? From whose point of view? Not the author's clearly or it wouldn't have been written. "Thought police" kept us in the system. Do we ever need thought police again? Thought police helped maintain the Iron Curtain, and cognitive dissonance of thought policies helped maintain the Hitler regime.
But I thank God that He preserved me from...feelings...my earthly relation with any other mere mortal...were led astray by false shepherds (Ezek. 34)...Oh, it is fearful to think of what an accounting...awaiting and yearning the return in repentance...
Sounds like "I thank God that I am not as these mere mortals, feeling, and fearfully led astray, by false shepherds. Return and Repent." Didn't a big guy pray at the altar like this, next to a poor guy, in the New Testament somewhere? And who got rebuked at the end of that encounter!
Here's some reading that everyone might find helpful
I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I lived just the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well.
Guest: Stan Joyce
Guest E-mail: sjoyce@daltron.com.pg
City, Country: Port Moresby PNG
Date & Comments: March 8, 2001
A very interesting site. I left in 1977 and whilst the road has not always been easy, life is what you make of it.I have been blessed with a loving wife and two great kids. From the news on the site it would appear that the key issues faced have not changed. Working for the past 20 years in a developing country has taught me that life is not always black and white, a point lost on our "friends" inside.
The work done to maintain this site must be time consuming to say the least. Anybody recently taking the big step to leave should take care to tread easy but remember that at the end of the day you have the savy to make a go of it. Billions are worse off than you!
Guest: John Gibbs
Guest E-mail: JGibbs@hatch.co.za
City, Country: Jo'burg SA
Date & Comments: March 8, 2001
It appears that not all ex. South African Ebs are happy in their adopted countries. We've recently heard of 3 cases - 2 from Australia and 1 from England where people have contacted their relatives in SA saying that they were unsettled; missing their families who are now spread over 3 continents; have not intergrated into their new localities and that "Australian brethren are snobish"
One person was contacted by a sibling who had not contacted them once in 25 years prior to leaving South Africa
Guest: Daniel Lee
Guest E-mail: LimeyBrit@aol.com
City, Country: Durham NC, USA
Date & Comments: March 8, 2001
"...but a very good 'friend' from high school - and was thinking of joining - instead of sneaking around..."
It's not worth it even for love. You are worth more than that. And so he will leave. If not, then he's not that "good of a friend" for you in the first place. Read the previous 19 pages of entries and learn what a system they have. Think of the kids you might have. Even if you can cope (for the rest of your life?) I'd hate to bring them into that cult. You're smart. Be sensible.
All the best
Daniel
Guest: Norma Lawry
Guest E-mail: nlawry@hotmail.com
City, Country: Christchurch, New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 9, 2001
Guest: Jacqueline Hayward Gant
Guest E-mail: jonjaq@thepark2000.fsbusiness.co.uk
City, Country: London
Date & Comments: March 10, 2001
I enjoyed reading your pages, very interseting.
Guest: Ray Taylor
Guest E-mail: rayjaytay@altavista.com
City, Country: Ayer MA USA
Date & Comments: March 10, 2001
The controversy subsequently expressed as to the baudy humor chronicled in the 2/24 entry troubles me. What singer was it who put Ecclesiastes to song? "There is a season to every purpose under heaven", "...a time to laugh, a time to cry", etc. And isn't there a boundary for humor? I recognize that humor in Australia may not have the same effect here in America and vice-versa, but does it embellish life and build character when we draw attention to the underside of an elephant in such a way? How do we explain to our children what is good and what is acceptable, what builds up and what tears down, what the difference is between right and wrong, between good and evil? Notwithstanding the few and uncharacteristic breaches of moral behavior among the brethren, we have all of us for the most part experienced the purity of life in our upbringing because we were shielded from immoral activity. Do we throw that to the wind just because we've rejected the system of man that we came from? Do we unleash our carnal instincts because the restraint is no longer there and do so in the name of free speech? Is Dick Wyman the new standard now as to what is acceptable conversation and behavior because he controls (re: 3/1 entry) what shows up on these pages?
The age in which we live IS on a downward slope so far as morals go. The respect we had for our elders in years past is clearly not as evident in the children of today as it was in our parents. Virtuous living has given way to a very selfish existence where we allow ourselves to be absorbed in whatever Hollywood decides to run in it's weekly features and whatever we allow to be viewed on the screen. My wife grew up "in the world", but supports me 110% when it comes to insisting that the Lord's name not be used casually. Statements such as "Oh my Go(d)(sh)" are discouraged in our household.
There was a side of me that found entertainment in the referenced entry. A popular misconception as to hell is that there will be plenty of company for those who are there. Not so. It will be solitary confinement. How many of us spend time thinking about what eternity with Jesus will be?
Greetings to all,
Ray Taylor
Guest: David Ransbottom
Guest E-mail: MADMAMAK @AOL.Com
City, Country: 851 Reinhard Ave. Columbus, Ohio U.S.A.
Date & Comments: March 10, 2001
Dear sir: I am very interested in the brethren movement do you know of any books that are avalible on this subject?
Sincerely yours, David
Guest: Sarah Clarke
City, Country: Canada
Date & Comments: 10 March 2001
Re: Response to Daniel Lee's Memo of March 7, 2001 - Curtailing Freedom of
Speech
Oh dear! I've just done a quick review of my life and was shocked to discover how my freedom of speech has being curtailed by those same wicked "Thought Police" Daniel speak of. Why, at the tender age of five, my mother even washed out my mouth to reinforce her censorship rights. (The psychological scars from that incident are unspeakable.)
And (help!) it didn't end there. Here I thought I was living in a benevolent democracy, but everywhere I turn, I find my freedom of speech thwarted by rules, guidelines, and even laws enshrined in the Criminal Code of Canada. I can't speak up at a public forum, phone into a radio station or write a letter to the editor without having to adhere to certain pre-set societal standards.
Only the other day, I witnessed a "Thought Policeman" (disguised as a bus driver) threaten to evict a kid for exercising his rights to free speech. Even in the sanctuary of my friends' homes, my rights are inhibited by my hosts' standards of good taste. As for my Bible, it's filled with commandments that curb my thoughts and thwart my freedom of expression. (Just try the Book of Proverbs.) And this - a book found in all the courthouses of Canada.
The crowning insult is - my employer reserves the right to discipline (even dismiss me) should I express opinions or repeat jokes, deemed derogatory about a co-worker's racial/ethnic/religious background. How dare anyone impose boundaries on me!
I had no idea (sigh!) what a repressive regime I was living in.
Sarah Clarke
Guest: Danielle
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 11, 2001
Hi Daniel,
thanks for your thoughts -
time is running out
there is a lot of pressure on him to find a wife as he is getting to mid 20's now and he tells me that is 'old'.......?
We do want to be together and he has been 'shut up'(?)( I think is the term ) several times now because of me........and I think his immediate family know how connected we are - and they have invited me to a meeting of some sort.......
My friends say not to do it
I don't think I'll be happy as an EB but I also don't believe I will be happy without him.
He truly believes that he will go to hell if he leaves. He knows of plenty of other guys around his age and a little older that have made sacrifices choosing not to be with their true love, but to walk with God instead.
How long can this situation go on for?????
Is this why they have introduced home schooling - (my other half was pulled out of our state school half way through year 11...but that didn't stop us)....
How many of them are unhappily married ....if any!
Guest: Andrew (Bill) Paulsen
Guest E-mail: apaulsen@telusplanet.net
City, Country: Calgary Canada formerly Camden N.S.W.
Date & Comments: March 11, 2001
To Danielle from Brisbane: Get your boyfriend to read 1 Corinthians 13. If he gets the gist of this scripture he will leave the EBs and join you. In the meantime, dig in. You'll get your man. Read this website from top to bottom before you do anything rash.
Guest: Malcolm Kirk
Guest E-mail: malcolmkirk@yahoo.com
City, Country: Toronto, Canada
Date & Comments: March 11, 2001
To: Still Inside
There are many willing to help you in the Detroit area. It is also not so far from Toronto for my family to supply help.
If you need to, contact me by phone at 416 247-8160 or write to 10 Arkley Cres., Toronto, ON, M9R 3S3. You won't get anything but help and encouragement to come out with your family.
Guest: Heather (Bell) Dutra
Guest E-mail: Jordalie@yahoo.com
City, Country: Seattle, USA formerly Brisbane, Australia
Date & Comments: March 12, 2001
To 'Danielle'
I felt I had to write to your pleas of help and hope to be able to help you in some way.
A cousin of mine had a boyfriend from outside and he joined them to be with her only to leave after 6 months as he couldn't handle the lifestyle.
Feel free to contact me if you wish, anonymously or not, I will respect your wishes.
You say they have invited you to a meeting, it is not as easy as they will make it out to be.
Guest: Graham Frost
Guest E-mail: grahamfrost@hotmail.com
City, Country: Peterborough, U.K.
Date & Comments: March 12, 2001
This is a message for 'Danielle' from Brisbane. I have read your postings and I am very touched by your obvious strong feelings for this guy who is in the EB's. I believe that it is extremely unlikely that he will go to hell if he leaves the EB's. That is because no-one has ever proved that hell exists.
I would beg and implore you, Danielle, not to join the EB's so that you can be with your man. If you would like to know my reasons for this please don't hesitate to e-mail me. I would be pleased to offer you any support that you might need.
Graham (left the EB's at 17, 27 years ago, never regretted it for one single moment!)
Guest: Russ McDonald
Guest E-mail: Russ.McDonald@gems2.gov.bc.ca
City, Country: Victoria, BC, Canada
Date & Comments: March 12, 2001
TO Danielle:
You asked how long can this go on for?
The Cult is merciless and will continue to hound and badger your boyfriend for as long as he will let them. He must make the break; whether by walking away, or by being kicked out.
He shows great strength and bravery in that he's been "shut up" a number of times and continues to see you. I hope he is strong enough to break these awful bonds. It is not easy.
Danielle, please, please do not join this cult. It will destroy your life. You are young; even if the worst happens, and your boyfriend chooses the cult over you, you will still have your freedom and many years ahead of you to build a fulfilling life.
Danielle, if you read thru this web-site, I guarantee that your eyes will be opened to the terrible pain and suffering this cult has caused so many of us. You are experiencing it to some degree already!
I hope that your friend will continue to pull away from the cult. Please see the EB Railroad part of the web-site; there are many of us world-wide that will help you and he.
Be patient, but be ever vigilant for your own safety and freedoms.
Thinking of you with love at this difficult time,
Russ McDonald
Guest: Rod Wilkins
Guest E-mail: wilkins@austarnet.com.au
City, Country: Mackay, Queensland, Australia
Date & Comments: March 13, 2001
To 'Danielle',
You will notice that a lot of folk have taken an interest in your predicament. I now live in North Queensland but still visit Brisbane regularly.
If you would like to talk about this face-to-face please get in touch at the above email address, or I can provide a phone number. My next visit is in a couple of weeks.
Dick Wyman, amongst others, can vouch for me (i.e. a genuine ex-EB willing to help anyone who asks).
Rod
Guest: Elizabeth Poore (maiden name)
Guest E-mail: g&cblinds@aol.com
City, Country: Ayr Scotland
Date & Comments: March 13, 2001
I was brought up by the exlusive brethren and
appreiate the teaching I recieved , but the religion was not evangelical enough for me .
your web site makes very interesting reading
Guest: Peter m Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@home.com
City, Country: Victoria, Canada
Date & Comments: March 13, 2001
To anyone considering joining the Exclusive PB's
Signs of a cult
I'm reluctant to call them a cult, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it likely is a duck The only defense against being caught up in any abberant group, is the insistance of ''show me where it says that in the scriptures'' Remember, the cruelest of all are the religeous types, they have strayed so far from the essence of Christianity, typically under the guise of being''faithfull'' The Lord came to save sinners, and was marked by compassion. People were drawn to him. When He healed someone, all he said was ''Go and sin no more'' That's Christianity- real Christianity- not some group's delusions of egotistical power trips.
Guest: Mr Whyte
Guest E-mail: wc.whyte@ntlworld.com
City, Country: Carnmoney, Northern Ireland
Date & Comments: March 14, 2001
I am now currently looking for someone with knowledge of the Exclusive Brethern movement within Ulster, or more particularly within the Glengormley area.
If there is anybody who can help me please contact me at wc.whyte@ntlworld.com
Many thanks
Guest: ELIZABETH POORE (maiden name)
Guest E-mail: g&cblinds@aol.com
City, Country: AYR Scotland
Date & Comments: March 14, 2001
I would like to hear from anyone who remembers the POORES from DORSET in the 60's and 70's.
Guest: Joy Bellard (nee Emmans)
Guest E-mail: bellard@xtra.co.nz
City, Country: Hastings, New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 15, 2001
Guest: Catherine Anderson
Guest E-mail: cathand@paradise.net.nz
City, Country: Levin New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 15, 2001
A friend suggested I have a look at this site, I was brought up Catholic & was treated as though we were a secret society, especially when it came to the confessional, but "Boy nothing loke what the EB's put their members through, what a lot of heartache out there.
I am a very addictive Genealogist & have no trouble finding my families, what about these poor ex members. So sad I couldn't bear not having contact with my families.
You very brave folk
Catherine
Guest: Jill Watson nee Frith
Guest E-mail: jillwatsonuk@yahoo.co.uk
City, Country: Stafford, England.
Date & Comments: March 15, 2001
Please note, my e-mail address has changed. I would love to hear from anyone who remembers me!
Guest: Danielle
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 15, 2001
Hi
I have taken into consideration what you are all saying, and I have read and reread the guest book and a lot of other information. Some of it seems to be [to my knowledge] incorrect. For example, my boyfriend [I will refer to him as 'J'] , his brother has a skateboard, [I read they are banned] and his dad calls his mum "honey", which I also read was banned. Maybe some new things have come in since you all left. Maybe things are getting better. J believes that they have happier marriages than the rest of the world, and maybe he's right. After all the divorce rate is incredibly low compared to most of my friend's parents and my parents and their friends.
The only thing that really stops me from going off to be with him right now is that I am very close to my own sister and brother, mother and father, and I can't imagine life without them. Is it true that I would have to forgo a relationship with them? J really likes them a lot, and he would never stop me from seeing them. Just as I would never stop him having contact with his family if he left to be with me. I have so many questions - can anyone answer them?
I am tired of crying myself to sleep every night over this utterly hopeless situation.
One of us has to give something up for the other - a sacrifice. And the way I've been looking at it is that he will lose a lot of people, if I chose to go, I have the support of my family , and I will never lose their love. I can and will continue to sneak around to meet people I love - it just won't be J anymore. It will be the other people in my life.
Is time running out, will they push him to get married, like they pushed him to buy a house. Is mid 20's really old to be single? Are there eb's who never get married?
SIGH!
Guest: Trevor Moyle
Guest E-mail: yle2000_UK.yahoo.com
City, Country: Woking England
Date & Comments: March 15, 2001
I left the peebs a year ago and i would like to contact my relatives in Lincoln or in the surrounding area. Their names are David Franklin and that is all I know. My mother was a Mills from Cirencester and my parents are David and Marion Moyle. Ring me on 07833363501.
Guest: Joseph
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: March 16, 2001
To Danielle,
Your heart will tell you just what to do.
If you are prepared to accept the path of the brethren, go for it. Just make sure your prepared for it. Its a lifetime commitment that you will never regret, although 99% of humanity wont understand. You can believe in love, but you cant believe in opinion. Sure you have more freedoms outside. Compared to what? The Lord will support you and be with you wherever you are. Billions are worse off. He makes you happy - regardless of the brethren or your friends or the world.
I have been inside and totally happy, outside and totally happy. Whats the difference? Life is what you make it. The Lord is One, and I can assure you, you will have a stronger link with the Lord than most of the brethren. No-one can touch you, His precious one, even the brethren...trust Him. You will be fine - they are great people.
Guest: Ted Fry
Guest E-mail: titus21314@hotmail.com
City, Country: Summerville, South Carolina, USC
Date & Comments: March 16, 2001
The entries of John Barber (3/1) and Ray Taylor (3/10) are in accord with the admonition that our words should be "always with grace, seasoned with salt, that we should know how to answer everyone" (Col. 4:6). Some have said we are not to "judge, lest we be judged". This is true as to judging other peoples motives, but these are words being judged by God's word, which can not be violated with impunity. Thus God expects true Christians to judge the behavior of other professing Christians (1 Cor. 5:12). Of course if we are to judge according to God's word, it can only righteous judgment if we judge ourselves first by the same standard ("beam" out of my eye, Matt. 7:5). Otherwise the Lord will judge me in a disciplinary manner Himself in this life, if I am a true Christian (1 Cor. 11:31,32; 1 Pet. 1:15-19).
The Bible specifically forbids Christians to engage in jesting (coarse humor, especially related to spiritual matters), which is unsuitable for them (Eph. 5:4). It is true that one may not be a true Christian and say things such as the coarse humor on the 2/24 entry, but God holds people accountable for their profession ("many say Lord, Lord...and do not the things I say...I never knew you"; Matt. 7:21-23, Luke 6:46). And if they do not profess to be Christians, God judges them (1Cor. 5:13).
The Lord admonishes us, as a father his child, because He loves His church. He has left us in the world to be lights in the darkness and hold forth the Word of life to those trapped in the Taylor, et al group or any other human religious system, sect or cult. We need to yield to the Spirit's ministry of Christ, risen and glorified, so that the truth will liberate us and we can bear much fruit.
In Christian love,
Ted
Guest: Victor Congdon
Guest E-mail: jcongdon01@snet.net
City, Country: Portland, CT (USA)
Date & Comments: March 16, 2001
As I read this page in the guest book I see the issue is to make correct decisions. To leave or to stay or to even join the EBs. Should I be "Still Inside" or be a "Free Bird." Who should I marry, should I be married? Is it humor or is it not? Should I give my name, should I stand for what I believe?
All of our lives are filled with decisions. It reminds me of Isaiah 7:15 where we are taught to refuse evil and choose good. But, to our shame we live in a world that calls good evil and evil good; who put darkness for light and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20.
May I encourage you to read the following. It is a note I included in the book I sent to my children and some friends at Christmas last year.
SECOND GENERATION SYNDROMEWhen I became the second generation, in the late 1950's it was the common and accepted behavior to be like the first generation. "If Mom and Dad did what was right then it must be acceptable for me."
I admit that this can be quite delusional for Mom and Dad can do what is wrong. To blindly follow them is not acceptable. At a minimum this ignores personal responsibility.
As an adult our actions are apparent by the numerous decisions we make. We make our "splash in the pond of life" and there are ripples that follow, ever so slight that they may be. As an adult we are called by the society in which we live to be accountable and responsible for our actions.
This raises two questions. First, does growth require change? I think the answer is yes. Second, are there standards to follow when making or participating in change? Again, the answer is yes.
There must be growth from generation to generation. This growth must be for the good of all. This growth mandates change. The second-generation syndrome is that noticeable change, a distinctive or characteristic behavior pattern that is observed by those we contact in life. Some of the first-generation may think of this change as a disease, a psychological disorder or an abnormal condition and in some cases it may be just that.
Growth that is not in accord with an acceptable standard results in disaster and sorrow. The challenge to us all is to understand and acknowledge the acceptable standard.
I humbly submit that the acceptable standard is The Bible. The Bible is God's Word and by virtue of God's supreme authority over the entire universe (Only a fool denies this) it must be the acceptable standard.
We are all required then to understand what the Bible teaches.
The following book will help you to understand what the Bible teaches. "Major Bible Themes" by Lewis Sperry Chafer revised by John F. Walvoord. It can be purchased from Folio Press Grand Rapids MI (USA) http://www.gospelcom.net/uplook or from Christian Book Distributors Peabody MA (USA) http://www.christianbook.com
It is a simple book to read. It contains innumerable references and proofs of its content. Please read it. Enjoy it. May it help you and guide you to understand and apply the acceptable standard as you make your "splash in the pond of life."
And now, thanks again Ted for your suggestion. I do agree, let's read our Bible and get involved in a Bible Study. May it be a lamp to my feet and a light in my path. Psalm 119:105.
Also, thanks Ray. Right on.
And to all who have read this far, I thank you.
Only by grace, Victor.
Guest: Barnaby Morris
Guest E-mail: barnabymorris@hotmail.com
City, Country: Hastings & Haywards Heath
Date & Comments: March 16, 2001
If the exclusives r allowed to read papers, what paper would they read?
Guest: Danielle
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 17, 2001
Hi Joseph
(Melbourne)
A breath of fresh air ?
Are you in or out?
If you were totally happy 'in', then why did you leave?
Would you ever go back, and why [or why not?]
Yes I agree they are nice people, and they do love the Lord, not in the ame way I do, but my way of thinking is that the believe Jesus is the Son of God, died for us, and rose again, and they worship Him [is that correct] and so they are saved. Unless of course it is Mr John Hales they are worshipping, which is as good as Satanic worship,is it not?
Do you miss your family and friends?
How old is Mr Hales
How long will he be the leader for
What will happen after he goes [more rules or less]
Are more people leaving these days than ever before
How many new people join each year
Are they really one big happy family, or is there the usual fighting within themselves.
Do they monitor this site?
Guest: Jill Mytton
Guest E-mail: e.j.mytton@uel.ac.uk
City, Country: London
Date & Comments: March 17, 2001
Danielle
I have been following your guest book entries and read your recent questions. First I wonder whether the group that J belongs to is the same one that is described on these web pages. Ask him whether James Taylor Junior was a Man of God. If he does not know what you are talking about then it is a different group with different rules to the ones you read on these pages. If he says 'Yes he was' then it is the same group - and you should beware.
If you join you will lose your whole family - my mother has not seen her son for 30 years because he is in the group and she is not. They will not tell her if he should die and he will not be allowed to attend her funeral should she die first. They may well tell you that this will not happen but it will. You will also not be able to express your opinions, you will have to accept the word of the person they call the Man of God. I could go on but I do think you would find it more helpful to talk with me or someone else one on one.
I know that it is hard to trust anyone - why should you? But you will have to take this risk with someone if you are to get answers.
In my life (probably much longer than yours!!) I have believed myself to be in love many times only for it not to work out - the pain passes and with time I came to realise that the person I was in love with was not the right man for me after all. I know that in your pain now that is hard to believe - but it is true as many will tell you. But I know the way you feel about him right now makes that idea impossible to think about.
You sound courageous - take the risk and talk with one of us privately or even with several of us. Your questions are very valid ones and need answers.
Warm thoughts to you
Jill
Guest: John Weightman
Guest E-mail: JWeigh6523@aol.com
City, Country: Berwick upon Tweed, England
Date & Comments: March 17, 2001
Dear Danielle
I've just read your entry dated 15 March. I have rarely felt more distressed for someone as I do for you just now. I'm going to reply to your questions, one by one.
First, however, I must express my concern that you do not know the answer to these questions from your dear friend,"J." You need to establish his opinions about all of these things and compare his replies with mine. I think I can say every one of my replies will have universal acceptance (by ex-EB's who visit this site) as giving the true picture.
The details as to skateboards and calling one's spouse "honey" are very insignificant and it is true that some very minor items like these do vary from place to place. Please do not make decisions on such items as these.
It is also true that exclusive brethren do not have many divorces. This is simply because both parties to a divorce do not (and cannot) remain members. They do not allow divorce. Divorcees cannot both remain. They thus rid themselves of the problem. I cannot say how many happy marriages there are; this is too subjective a judgement. What I can say is that there are huge number of unhappy marriages.
You say you are close to your own family. I can say quite categorically that you would lose them. Whatever J might agree to, any contact would have to be in secret. It could never be open. Similarly, you might not stop J from seeing his own family if he left. But the decision would not be yours. They would refuse to see him. This is not a myth. I do not say this to frighten you. It is how it is. There are thousands of witnesses too this infamy. I speak from the most bitter of personal experiences.
To answer your specific questions:
Please don't delude yourself that you can "sneak around" meeting those you love. You cannot.
I see that Rod Wilkins has suggested you meet him. I would plead with you to do that. He will give you the very best advice. I know of no-one better.
My warmest love and very best wishes to you in your amazing quest. Please be assured of my sincere prayers, too.
John
Guest: Peter Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@home .com
City, Country: Victoria, Canada
Date & Comments: March 17, 2001
There was a time, probably 70 or 80 years ago, when the ''brethren'' as we knew them were being blessed by the Lord, as a company. I make the distinction between personal blessing and ''company'' blessing, as the Lord always blesses the individual, far more than we deserve. However, once the ''exclusive pb's'' began to adopt the theory that they had a ''special message'' from God that no one else did, and they began to outwardly adopt the ''one man ministry''the die was cast.
It is curious to note that at the same time these developments were taking place, the gospel was de- emphasised. Sunday schools were closed, as were all other ancillery ministries ie youth groups, outreaches, etc. Everything was drawn into the vortex of a central ''controll'' Theoretically, each assembly still made their own decisions in a ''care meeting'' but more and more no decisions were made without direct contact with the ''man of God'' It is also interesting to note that virtually no one came in from the ''outside'' and such an event became almost unheard of. I never saw, or witnessed a ''conversion'' after a gospel message from about 1960 on. The alarm bells were ringing, but no one listened, and indeed if any voice was raised it was quickly extinguished. The older brethren, who were alarmed at the free use of alcohal were derided, and silenced. The local leadership was tranferred to younger brothers, and again, any voice of concern was ''dealt with'' The next step was to accept babies to ''break bread'' if they reached for the emblems, as any child would when seeing something being passed around. This removed any personal exercise to break bread. If a husband, wife, or child raised any question they were turned in, and ''shut up'' or withdrawn from under the guise of ''faithfulness'' Marriages were disolved, children removed from homes, families wrenched apart, sometimes never to come together again. The noose tightened, and there was ''zero tolerance'' for any individual excercise.
Actually, this isn't new at all, the Pharasee's did it years ago- they hated our Lord, and hung him on a cross. The Pb's show striking similarities both in word or deed. What a travesty! What a misrepresentation of the gospel! And once I believed it too. Thank God for deliverance! Run, don't walk, for the nearest exit.
Guest: Esther McLean
Guest E-mail: jaseshunni@icqmail.com
City, Country: Hastings, New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 18, 2001
Hi there everyone,
Just thought it was about time I said something! I've just been reading thru the entries, and wow I never realised that Vanessa had written such a long entry for my benefit. Well Vanessa, you will be happy to know that I have no intention of going back to something that will never change or ever make me happy! I am finding that as the days go by, that my will power gets stronger and stronger. I miss my family very much, but I always think about all the things i have gained by my departure. There is no way I want to be stuck in the middle of a big sticky mess...been there and done that once....left and went back...stupid move...four months later I was gone again! In response to Still Ins postings, it is hard even for a single person to actually tell the EBs the take a run and jump, but if u really want to be happy then u gotta do it. Remember as Stan Field says, the matter of your life is between u and God, the brethren have no right to run ur life for u, which is what the try to do...thou shalt not do this, and thou shalt not do that...so u should do what u feel is right, and unfortunately it could mean separation from ur family...they call themselves Christians and they break up what is most important to God...families. They stand back and mock those less fortuate than themselves...(I've seen it), they are absolutely rude to those that have stood up on their own two feet and left, they laugh at other's misfortune. Now tell me, can u honestly say that u think this is christian behaviour? I don't know whether I am out of place saying all this...but someone please tell me if I am. Anyway, u can be sure that my sympathies are with anyone trying to get free. Anyway, I'm free and very happy...living my life to the fullest without being too stupid and it's great not having to worry about being "shut up"...it's too late for that! Anyway, bye bye hanky heads and welcome to the real world everyone!!!! No flags flying high on my head anyway! Have a great day everyone! Gotta go and cook tea!
Guest: Liz
Guest E-mail: itsbarrell_@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 18, 2001
DANIELLE.....
I know so well where you are coming from, and how you feel. I also know what everyone else is saying... I dont know it all, and I am seriously searching for answers to my questions aswell. Not about God and Jesus, In Him, I am secure in my faith, I am a born again christian, but my questions in regards to the bretheren, seem almost unending.
I also am in a whatever you want to call it relationship with a guy that is IN. It causes so many problems, as you would know...
I would love to talk to you, through emails??? And anyone else that can really help me...
I know a decision has to be made by us as to the direction we will take; Danielle, as you know, no matter what the choice is, the result will bring incredible suffering... Certain ones, some joy and happiness aswell, but once involvement has begun, the damages begin, and scars will never heal, fade yeah, but, so easily opened again.
Sure, I dont understand as much as those who are related to ex peebs, and those who have been IN themselves. But I do know from my experiences, the pain felt in my heart, is something I should not have had to experience. I know also of
Please write to me Danielle, maybe its not EXACTLY the same for us, and everyone else, all help is welcome, I am at the end of my list of resources, dry from trying to find why... I am so hurt and confused by these sick people...
Dick, this is an awesome page that I hope heaps more people needing find, Ive read most of this site from top to bottom, there's so much, Im getting there.
thats all from me for now,
Liz
Guest: Anonymous
Date & Comments: March 18, 2001
There is a life-long friend of mine who has signed this guestbook from time to time. About 35 years ago, when I was a teenager, he provided many rides to Bible studies and prayer meetings, counseled me as to my education, and asked me to design, build, and install an intercom for their 3-story home and to help him install a central air conditioning system in our meeting room. In short, he was a real friend.
Years later, I befriended his son, counseling him as to his education, giving him a job when he had difficulty finding one, and trying to help him work through a physical handicap. Sadly, during the 1990-1991 recession, we did not have enough work for two people, and I could not afford to keep him on the payroll.
Several years ago, both my friend and his son got involved in a multi-level marketing organization which both secular and Christian authors have labeled cult-like, began distributing a book which, among other things, touted Freemasonry as a good thing and highlighted a Napoleon Hill book about growing rich as a "classic", and started participating in a sales meeting prayer addressed to "the god of your choice". We were deeply troubled by these things, and tried to voice our concerns in a brotherly way, seeking to help them get free of these damaging influences. But my friend interpreted this as unfair criticism of his son, and one day, as we gathered for a Bible study, he demanded that we withdraw our concerns (which we could not do with a good conscience), and insisted that he was going to continue participating in the prayer, saying "it's deity" to justify it, and adding that the trouble with brethren was that they needed to be more tolerant. He then read from Isaiah 65:4-5 about those "who say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke", told us to go our way, and said they would go theirs.
Such harshness might be expected from someone associated with the cult-like group often mentioned in these guestbook entries, but I never expected it from one who was once a member of this group and had expressed a judgment of their harsh actions himself.
I have not mentioned my name or my friend's name; perhaps my friend will read this entry, realize that I love him and his family and mean them no harm, and one day be reconciled with us before that blessed day when we shall be with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and we shall all see eye to eye. Isaiah 52:8.
Guest: Joseph
Guest E-mail: via DWyman@Cloudnet.com
City, Country: Melbourne, Australia
Date & Comments: March 19, 2001
Dear Danielle
Mostly the brethren are very happy, but some arn't, and unfortunately they're the only ones we hear from. I can answer most of your questions with fair bit of authority, however it will need to be via direct e-mail or phone. Please write to Dick Wyman and he will supply my info.
Joseph (Melbourne)
Guest: Someone still in fellowship
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: March 19, 2001
I've avoided putting anything in the guestbook until now, preferring a low profile, but I can't ignore anyone who's thinking about joining the EBs because I'm going in the opposite direction.
Danielle, there is one thing you will have to accept: either you or 'J' will have to give up your family and beliefs. Which of you it is, is up to the two of you, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but don't take a leap into an alien faith hoping you can keep some elements of another life by sneaking around the edges of the rules. I'm in that situation at the moment, and I can tell you it will ruin your mental health. Can you foresee the situation a few years later when you feel trapped, and the inevitable resentment spills over onto the one who got you into it? ... don't risk it.
'J' is right that it is possible to be very happy among the brethren. What it takes is for a person to value support and security so much that they're willing to sacrifice thinking for themselves. There are people like that, and there are brethren like that, and in my opinion there could hardly be a better life for such people - but I can't turn myself into that kind of person to become happy where I am, and you need to consider VERY carefully whether you could. If you're asking about their attitudes to different opinions, it may be you can't.
Don't let all this discourage you. I have seen a situation just like yours resolve itself very happily with both partners ending up among the brethren, although it was very much the exception. But there's no use wishing things are other than they are, and I can't see any route through your tangle without more nights full of tears on the way. Only you know if it's worth it.
If J's group does turn out to be the same as what I think of as the exclusive brethren, I can answer any questions about their current practise and attitudes if that's what you need. Dick Wyman will give you my email address if you ask him. But my advice, for what it's worth, is to sort out what's the best you can hope for and what's just a dream. You will need to know the difference.
Guest: Danielle
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 20, 2001
You guys are great!!!!!!!!!!!
Jill [london March 17], I asked J if James Taylor Jn was a man of God [he looked at me as though I came from another planet] and then said yes, and wanted to know how I knew.....so I said that I'd been trying to find some stuff out so we could relate better...and he was okay with that - he didn't ask anything else about it [didn't seem to care, and never wants to talk 'eb stuff', and so we just caught up on other personal things. It was bizarre.
Liz [brisbane March 18]
I tried to email you but couldn't get through. I am really glad you wrote because now I know I am not alone here. I do know that when we were all in school and they all got pulled out, a few 'relationships' and friendships were destroyed, but as far as I know, the other kids didn't stay connected to their 'worldly' others. Although, they wouldn't know about me and J, so maybe I'm wrong. They're timing for pulling them out of our school was rotten!
John [england march 17]
thank you so much!
You are right, it is a worry that I don't know the answers to all my questions from J, but honestly, we usually always talk 'worldly' talk.
Our time together is so limited we don't waste time talking about that......only whether or not I can live like that, or if he can live out of it.
And when we were younger and had all the time in the world together at school , it all seemed so unimportant, and then he was pulled out practically overnight.
You mentioned the priests. I didn't know they had any. Who are they and how do they become priests?
someone still in fellowship [march 19]
You really interest me!!!!
You are either very brave or very stupid.
You are using a computer? Aren't you scared they are watching this site? I am terrified that I have already given away too much detail and they will work out who J is! Aren't you scared of going to hell for using a computer? And if you're not scared and you know it's all lies and scare tactics, then what are you doing still in fellowship? Are you not wanting to leave your family......
you know what, there MUST be some mothers and fathers out there still 'in' who love their children more than they love their beliefs. There must be families who would stick by, and listen to, a family member who has seen the light, rather than believe they are the devil. Have any of you that have left, ever written letters to your family still in, and explained all this stuff that I've been reading on these pages?
Does anyone out there know of anything, anything at all, that could tear this whole system down?
There must be something, there HAS to be something
Guest: Laurie Twinam
Guest E-mail: Laurie@twinam.fsnet.co.uk
City, Country: England
Date & Comments: March 19, 2001
Message for Elizabeth Poore
My Email of today addressed to you has been returned, apparently with an error in your Email address. Would you please contact me (0732 455425) or by Email
Guest: Peter Clarke
Guest E-mail: clarketrim@home .com
Date & Comments: March 20, 2001
Danielle.... you asked if there was something, anything, that would tear the whole system down. Only the Lord, nothing else. And it will happen, in His good time, not ours. There is nothing we can do to accomplish this, but then again there is nothing they can do to hold the grip on the people either, once the Lord has decided He has had enough of the travesty that goes on in His name. While many of us had had growing concerns on how the departure from scripture was accelerating, even the departure from earlier ministry, we all thought that when the ''man of God'' was caught in the sack with another man's wife, surely no one would condone that. Even JT.jr's local meeting judged it as 'evil', including some of his own immediate family. Nevertheless, the ranks closed, and anybody daring to question the cover up was immediately withdrawn from. The leaders called it a ''mystery'' and said JT.jr , who died shortly after, had'' given his life'' for the brethren. What blasphemy! So, when you ask what would have to happen to bring the ''system'' down, you have to consider that if they will set aside the Word of God, set aside their own conscience, ignore evidence of gross sin, refuse to judge evil [their claim to be the ground they gather on] then you really must agree to all their doctrine and teachings, without question if you choose to join them. They so entwine their members with family and business, and have such an emotional grip on people, that once in, leaving is extremely traumatic. The real question is, could you live like that? My advice, if any, is for the both of you to ask the Lord to make clear your pathway. Trust me, He will. One thing you can be sure of, The Lord will not ask you to go against his Word. Your answer is already there.
Guest: Jill Mytton
Guest E-mail: e.j.mytton@uel.ac.uk
City, Country: Bromley, Kent, UK
Date & Comments: March 20, 2001
Hello again Danielle
So now we know that the group J belongs to is the one depicted on these pages.
You need to think this through very carefully. I get the sense from your messages that you are in a hurry over this. may I ask why? Please take your time - J is not going to be forced to marry someone else if he doesn't want to, so there is time. Please don't rush.
Why not talk to the person still in fellowship, he has thought this all through very carefully (at least I think it is a 'he'!!) and will I am sure give you straight answers. In this age of super technology it is not difficult to have a computer - laptops are small and can be hidden and mobile phones used to connect to the internet. There are also internet cafes and from recent contacts I think quite a few young Ebs are now using the web secretly.
You say J does not want to talk about EB stuff - but you are going to have to aren't you if you want a relationship with him to last? But he might find this hard - he may not have thought it through very well at all and should perhaps himself talk to one of us. It has been his life up to now - the whole structure of his life is brethrenism - he is not used to thinking for himself, making decisions for himself, relying on his own resources. Even if he leaves it is going to be a very very difficult time for him - please think about this too. You will need outside help - I know, like so many on this guest list, we know how hard that transition period is.
You are not alone Danielle and there are so many people it would seem who want to help you, myself included.
One person who could help you I think is this person still in fellowship so why not take him/her up on the offer? My offer is also still open - write anytime.
Warm thoughts to a brave heart
Jill
Guest: barrell
Guest E-mail: itsbarrell_@hotmail.com
City, Country: Brisbane
Date & Comments: March 21, 2001
Danielle,
Hey, plz try and email me again, my address is above, its correct, I made sure....
And yeah, Id really watch how much you say on this site, coz like NUMEROUS other ppl have said, they do monitor it. Of course they do, as if they'd know about it and just leave it be...
I dont know, just be wary Danielle about how much you say and of specific details... putting 2+2 together is easy for them if you not realising, give away a ltitle at a time, by itself its fine, but many postings... lots of little bits!!!
So anyway, also thank you to the ppl who have emailed me so far.... you are all welcome to, lots of different perspectives help, and dont worry about me gotting TOO many emails, its worth it for the help....
Danielle - try again
Blessings.....
Barrell
Guest: Abigail Cresswell (nee Codd)
Guest E-mail: orbitas@compuserve.com
City, Country: Nottingham
Date & Comments: March 22, 2001
I have recently returned to UK from long time ex pat in Kenya & S Africa. I am originally from Derby and I would like to hear from former EBs like myself. I only became aware of this very useful site.
Guest: Charlie Patmore
Guest E-mail: charliepatmore@aol.com
City, Country: Dartford, Kent, UK
Date & Comments: March 22, 2001
Left the EB's in 91. My younger brother AJ (Adrian) is now living in Albury NSW OZ. I went to visit for a month last Dec. As many know he has only been out for about 18 months. It was so great to see him after 8 yrs, I had known virtually nothing about any ex EB's. I bought a computer and the rest is history......I discovered old mates who I grew up with...my cousins, Steve and Mark Pallister etc ..etc..So hi to all but PS. I am not into any religion any more..!!!!!!!
Charlie P.
Guest: Anon EXEB
Guest E-mail: anonexeb@hotmail.com
Date & Comments: March 22, 2001
23-03-01
Anon EXEB
Dear Danielle,
We have been following your story with a lot of interest and feeling. Please excuse this anonymous message but this is a deadly serious business.
We have left the EBs comparatively recently (compared with some) because of the fundamental error of the system. What is more important - we did this of our own free will - we were not pushed.
By the way, we are not happy to openly contribute to this site at the moment for a couple of very good reasons. Sorry about the "cloak and dagger" stuff!
Yes - there are happy people in there, but there are also a lot of very unhappy people. Likewise there are people who leave who are gloriously happy but sadly there are others who leave who completely go to pieces. The psychology of it all is very complex. The important thing is to understand what makes this particular system "tick". Then everything falls into place - there are really no mysteries apart from the almost unending list of "directives".
Now, about you Danielle, please don't lose any more sleep over "whether or whether not you should join". If you decided to join, considering your circumstances, I would only give you about a 10% chance of being successful. This is definitely not your average church. They are certainly not a "recruiting" organisation. Their specialty is "keeping the existing membership", and they have devised what must be close to the perfect system to achieve this. What is more, the "priests" in Brisbane are not fools and to make matters worse for you they have been caught on this very thing in recent years.
So what should you do Danielle?
Firstly, keep the details off this site - exciting as it is for the rest of the world, we don't want to see you mess it up!!
Secondly, educate yourself in the ways of the EBs and try to "help" J about REAL Christianity. The question is often asked "what will overthrow this system?". The answer is the Lord, and NOTHING else. (By the way some contributors to this site need to be warned - you may well be serving the system by irrational criticism, ignorant claims and general "unchristian" comment. This only increases the "siege mentality" and makes this system even stronger. But more of this another time.)
My wife and myself will be at an apartment in Brisbane tomorrow Sat (24th) and would be glad if you would phone us on 3370 1561 between 3.30 and 4.30 pm. Otherwise Sun between 8 and 10 am we might be in. Just introduce yourself as "Danielle". We should be able to answer your questions and are very happy to do so. We realise you don't know us, but then again you have nothing to lose by phoning us. We need not know who you are but would love to help you.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Anon EXEB
Guest: Debbie Spencer
Guest E-mail: debzaspencer@hotmail.com
City, Country: Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 22, 2001
My mother (Cecilie Plamer, nee Boon) is an ex EB. She has told me a bit about her life in the 'cult,' but only reading through the entries posted on this site, I have truly come to see the full picture.
Recently my 'still-in' uncle died. My mother recieved a phone call from her two other(still in) brothers late one night telling her that. Understandbly she was upset, by the news of his death and also the contact with her brothers after a 23 year silence. When she told me I cried, I never met the man, so I wasn't grieving for him, more the fact that I would now never have the oppurtunity to. Somewhere in this country I have a whole bunch of cousins that probably don't know that my sisters and I exist. This is the biggest thing that I have a problem with. If they truly followed God, this 'cult' wouldn't split up families. Thanks to Esther I recently found out that I have a new cousin, well, new to me anyway. I have known vaguely for awhile about the others.
Danielle, I know that you love your man very much, and if you two are meant to be together, it will happen. Talk to those who have offered help and advice, and think long and hard. God bless you and 'J'. My heart goes out to you.
Take care everyone,
Debbie
Guest: Kay Barnes
Guest E-mail: wcparadies@net.nz
City, Country: Palmerston North
Date & Comments: March 23, 2001
Myself and my sister Muriel have been out of the fold since 1974. We did not conform to their ways and were worldly. We would love to hear from any one that remembers us from the good old days at Ashhurst.
Guest: Lee Mccracken
Guest E-mail: lee.mccracken@ntlworld.com
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
I would like to hear from anyone who has been in the EBs of late, due to the fact that I used to work for these people & I would like some information on their rules & beliefs.
When I started this place (in Glengormley) I thought these people are good christian's; how wrong was I. I now know these people as evil, going against Gods prefect word
If anyone can help me out with these people please contact me at lee.mccracken@ntlworld.com
Guest: Jessie Worden
Guest E-mail: jworden@tpg.com.au
City, Country: Warrnambool, Vic
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
Hi Danielle
I cannot emphasise strongly enough how true is the entry by John Weightman. The only query I would have would be that they are all happy - I cannot be sure that they really know what true happiness is... I also know of a couple who got married and about 2 years later realised that they just weren't compatible, but because divorce is "not allowed" they had to continue living as husband & wife. You need to remember, and this is only my opinion, that all EB's are extremely good actors ... they are trained and taught to be the person they are - and generally it is not the person they were born to be (how God meant them to be when they were born). I left the EB's some 11 years ago now - literally ran away from home at the age of 16, and my life, once I found out who the real me was, has been nothing short of fantastic.
Feel free to E-Mail me with any queries you may have, and I will try to answer them the best I can. Also, Jill Mytton's entry is a very important one ... please ask her question.
My thoughts are with you.
Regards, Jessie
Guest: Paul Duncan
Guest E-mail: via dwyman@cloudnet.com
City, Country: Canada
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
Danielle;
If the eb's are like the pb's, the bottom line is... if you join you are cut off from your family, if J leaves he is cut off from his. I left the pb's at 16, 30 years ago. I never saw my parents again until my father died and we were granted a visit to pay our respects. My wife (never in) and I have raised 3 great kids and any cult that would deny my parents meeting and watching their grandchildren grow to adults can only be corrupt. I wish you well in your own personal decision and can only tell you that for me, getting out was the best thing I ever did. Paul Duncan.
Guest: anoymous
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
To Danielle
Please think about what you want to do very carefully... I know you love this man but it is not everything... If he loves you he will follow you.... I am 35 years old... and have a sister about 5 1/2 years older than me... I left the EBS 15 yeaars ago... My mother was an outsider too like you and met my father and married him and joined the EBS...some 40 years ago... They will never accept you Danielle.. They never accepted my mother... They were nice to her face but even growing up as a kid.. I could see the pain my mother was going through as they would stab her in her back behind her back and sometimes quite often very rude to her face... And would quite often be rude to me about my mother behind her back... This really hurt me as a kid... There are many things as I grew up and realised and hoped one day she would up and go even if she left me... My parents both talked about going all the time but were just too scared to do it... I ended up doing it myself.. as I realised these people were not christians to treat my mother like they did... So bascically you would end up putting pressure on your children... After 40 odd years Danielle my dear mother has decided that she could take no more and has up and left my father and the EBS. . My father has been ringing all her family but he hasn't even got the guts to ring me... He has got an outsider who works for him, that I knew 16 years ago to ring me.... Ha Does he think I am stupid.... I would like to say more but it is not safe to do so at this stage... I just want you Danielle to think carefully at what you are going to do... I will think of you
Guest: Vanessa Janson
City, Country: Geraldine New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
Hi there Esther
Glad to know you are doing so well... Chin up and I will always think of you.... love from Vanessa
Guest: Vanessa Janson
City, Country: Geraldine, Sth Canterbury New Zealand
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
To Lucy.......... Just want to know how you are doing and is everything going ok?????? Please take care and smile to the world........ Do not let them hound you.... Turn it around they don't like that... Vanessa
Guest: MCC
Guest E-mail: XMCCX@HOTMAIL.CO.UK
City, Country: Northern Ireland
Date & Comments: March 24, 2001
Can any one the me why the E/B closed their meeting halls in South Belfast S.E Belfast and North Down and moved to Glengormly where thy built new halls. They also moved their homes to that area, about seven or eight years ago. I have just always wondered why.
I have no dealing with the EBs and have no bone to pick.
As a Christian with certian beliefs it is easy to find fault with others and even easier to find fault with myself. Being what might be call a Christian gipsy, although I would prefer Christian Pilgrim it has been my privilage to share fellowship in the many Christian places of worship, ie Uniting Church of Australia. Baptists, Presbyterian, PBs etc and in all I have met those that love the Lord, those are very nice people and those that are not, those that lead and those that follow. I am sure that it is no different in the EBs.
Fitting in to a liberal local church can be as difficult as fitting into a very strict one the presures are to conform to the standard present, and not to speak out against the people that like to dominate others.
It may be earier to leave a liberal one and keep friends and relatives but the question will always be no matter which one you leave. "Where do I go from here."
To stay or join should be based on.
Sometimes you do not know till you leave or join.
May the presence of the Lord go with you, in our going out and your coming in.
Oh, by the way done forget the question at the top.
Guest: Dan Mcilroy
Guest E-mail: mcilroydaniel@hotmail.com
City, Country: UK
Date & Comments: March 25, 2001
Some days are easier than others, aren't they? Not a day goes past when I don't think about being out of fellowship, but for some reason I've found the last week or so particularly difficult.
I left six years ago. I left of my own volition (although I hardly wanted to). In fact, I just disappeared as quickly as I could. Not before having the phonecalls, the visits, etc, of couse, but I managed to get out. Though I scarcely wanted to.
The reason? I'm gay. From not understanding what being gay really meant, and thinking of sodomy as a shorrible scourge, I began to realise I was gay. And there was nothing I could do about it. I hated it. I tried to supress it - I couldn't. I began as a young man in my early 20s to have gay affairs - not of course with anyone in the assembly.
From being one of the "bright young things" of the assembly, encouraged by brethren (and solidly by the sisters too) to partiipate and make my voice heard, I went to a feeling of indescribable guilt. I scarcely knew where I stood with God on the issue, but I knew exactly where I would stand with the brethren.
What were my options? If I told them, those narrow little men, would there be any understanding, any support, any kind words? I doubted it. would those old, meanspirited men want to even begin to try? I couldn't face the consequences of everyone knowing; the meeting where we would move into assembly and I would be one small voice in a corner against men parroting the usual bible verses. No way.
They were truly perplexed. But the one thing I am proud of is that I never once answered their questions, or responded to their assumptions, despite all the calls and visits. I cried during those calls. But i wouldn't explain. Did they know? I don't think so. The comments I got suggested that the assembly seemed more exercised that I might be contemplating moving to a denomination (horror!) than to think of any real sin.
It hurt. A lot. It still does. Not a day goes by that I don't think about those people, the good times, the closeness, the fellowship, those special moments when the Lord's face shone upon us as we gathered simply around the loaf and the cup. I feel guilt, diappointment. I didn't want it to be this way. I haven't moved to a denomination (how could I after all the teaching? I'm just not comfortable with it).
I've thought about going back. But that's easier said than done. They would demand answers, ask questions, there will be a whole army of rumours and speculation to fight. The scrutiny, the supervision. And I can't lie to them and I can't marry.
I know it's my fault. It's my sin. And yet it's not a sin I chose. It chose me. I can't help being gay. I dont know how the Lord feels about it. I'm now in my late 20s.
I don't hate them. I love them all. Some of them are the most narrow minded people on this earth yes. but i would prefer to be with them than where I am now.
I often wonder to myself, is there an assembly where I could have got away with it. I bet I could if I had the right 'connections'. I bet it goes on elsewhere. I bet there are known gay men tolerated or just 'brushed over' in assemblies. I'm wondering if anyone here is in my position, or knows others who have been in the position, or knows of where gay behaviour does go on.
I discovered this site a week ago, now that I've finally bought my computer. It's so telling that so mnay people say so much on here. being in fellowship was such a key part of all our lives, it controlled us, for better and for worse. And now it's gone.
Old habits die hard. I have a TV at home - and do you know I NEVER watch it!
Yours in love
DMcI
Guest: Roger Stott
Guest E-mail: rogerstott@linone.net
City, Country: Exeter, Devon UK
Date & Comments: March 26, 2001
Dear Dan
Greetings. I was also in the brethren, loved them and was committed to them, believed in their teachings and missed them when I left. But that passed quite quickly. Once I was free of their influence I came to see that I had been duped, more than that I had joined in the duping process myself. I left at the age of 34 - I had been taking fellowship meetings and even a few three day meetings. Looking back I felt foolish, seeing clearly that their tight little fellowship (which felt so warm and caring from inside - especially if you were one of 'the approved') was actually misguided, mean, simplistic and cruel.
So when you say you left them six years ago and then go on to speak of your feelings of loss and deprivation, you surprise me. Within about a year of leaving I looked back on the whole brethren structure and experience as silly and ridiculous, having the same kind of relation to reality (or to any 'real' form of christianity) as Disneyland does to a natural forest. It is, ultimately, a running away from reality into an enclave of over-simplifications and childish conceit and posturing. Leaving it, one has to start learning to be a 'grown-up person' and that isn't quick or easy. Brethrenism contains the usual blend of (on the one hand) simple-minded sentimentality and (on the other) a cruel, punitive judgmentalism; that nasty sadistic combination which characterises all forms of fundamentalism.
Your sexual orientation (which is not sinful or perverse and about which you should feel no guilt) has served to free you from a genuinely perverse and destructive way of thinking. I hope you will come to realize and celebrate that. And if anyone quotes the Old Testament strictures on homosexuality to you, ask them to go to Leviticus and read the rest of the 'ritual purity codes' there. Ask them why they (and their fellow homophobes) are picking out that bit and are not insisting (a) that children who use bad language to their parents should be executed (20.9), (b) that all disabled people be banned from religious services (21:16-20), (c) that anyone who works on Saturday should be executed (d) that no-one should eat fruit from a tree until it is five years old (19: 23-25) (e) that no man is allowed under any circumstances to trim his beard (let alone shave it off!) (21:5), (f) that there be a complete ban on the eating of pork, hare,shrimps, prawns, mussels, lobster, eel, and any meat that is 3 days old (11), (g) that women who have recently given birth and those who are menstruating should be regarded as unclean and banned from church buildings.
And then go out and live your life and celebrate your freedom. The world is not the frightening, hag-ridden place that we were brought up to believe in. It is both wonderful and terrible, full of marvels and miseries - but it's the only one we've got. The retreat into narrow, self-aggrandising fantasies is cowardly and small-minded, an insult to the Creator you believe in.
With best wishes
Roger Stott
Guest: Daniel Lee
Guest E-mail: LimeyBrit@aol.com
City, Country: Durham, NC, USA
Date & Comments: March 26, 2001
Dear Dan,
Interesting that you wrote what you did last week. At the same time my father-in law sent this copy of an e:mail to us. It says largely what Roger has already passed on, with a few additions.
Don't be a victim. Move on and discover God's purpose for you in your life
Daniel
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:40 AM
Subject: Bible Revisited
Copy of an e-mail a friend received. Very tongue-in-cheek, (and, I suspect, from a Canadian looking at the spelling of some words like 'odour' and 'neighbour')
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio